Pakistan Navy upgrading type zulfiquar class frigate

[Tornado23]

Hi everyone,

Maybe little off-topic but this question is puzzling me about F-22P frigates. (I already asked same question about agosta subs in other thread). Question is did PN really utilized ToT package for F-22Ps. As, I assume that ToT comes with huge additional costs and complete transfer of technology so that country can build more ships on its own. Why we didn't made more of these when we badly needed to retire totally obsolete type 21s. With no full utilization of previous ToT packages, is there any hope for future ToTs as in Babur / hangor etc?

Thanks in advance for some insights!

@iLION12345_1 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Akh1112

 

[Akh1112]

Hi everyone,

Maybe little off-topic but this question is puzzling me about F-22P frigates. (I already asked same question about agosta subs in other thread). Question is did PN really utilized ToT package for F-22Ps. As, I assume that ToT comes with huge additional costs and complete transfer of technology so that country can build more ships on its own. Why we didn't made more of these when we badly needed to retire totally obsolete type 21s. With no full utilization of previous ToT packages, is there any hope for future ToTs as in Babur / hangor etc?

Thanks in advance for some insights!

to put it simply, we don’t know, we never will unless someone says otherwise.

the thing is, transfer of technology can take shape in any form. Afaik, this was more related to the manufacturing and design process. This means, the experience and expertise gained from this project can be applied anywhere, this is what we are seeing with Jinnah class, ASFAT has taken an advisory role, overseeing the project, with PN designers(aiui) undertaking design and modifications. In the same way where we received tot for the azmat’s, modified some and called it a day, is it efficient, no, we could make so much better use of this, though, at the end of the day, it’s giving us experience and expertise to work with these kinda things. For example, the local production of agostas gave us the experience needed for now manufacturing the yuan class, the french held our hands through that, allowing us autonomy in certain areas which can now be applied to hangor. Tldr; we may not use the tot efficiently, but we gain and learn from it, to then apply elsewhere lol

 

[JawadKKhan]

to put it simply, we don’t know, we never will unless someone says otherwise.

the thing is, transfer of technology can take shape in any form. Afaik, this was more related to the manufacturing and design process. This means, the experience and expertise gained from this project can be applied anywhere, this is what we are seeing with Jinnah class, ASFAT has taken an advisory role, overseeing the project, with PN designers(aiui) undertaking design and modifications. In the same way where we received tot for the azmat’s, modified some and called it a day, is it efficient, no, we could make so much better use of this, though, at the end of the day, it’s giving us experience and expertise to work with these kinda things. For example, the local production of agostas gave us the experience needed for now manufacturing the yuan class, the french held our hands through that, allowing us autonomy in certain areas which can now be applied to hangor. Tldr; we may not use the tot efficiently, but we gain and learn from it, to then apply elsewhere lol

Right, Thanks for the input. I had this question, when I heard ex-Chief of Naval staff making statement that PN would become a navy with submarine building capability from submarine operating one. I recalled, same statements were made 3 decades ago after Agosta agreement. Perhaps, Naval officials at that time had to make such statements to justify massive ToT payments. I just hope, this time we use it more efficiently.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Right, Thanks for the input. I had this question, when I heard ex-Chief of Naval staff making statement that PN would become a navy with submarine building capability from submarine operating one. I recalled, same statements were made 3 decades ago after Agosta agreement. Perhaps, Naval officials at that time had to make such statements to justify massive ToT payments. I just hope, this time we use it more efficiently.

Very good question by the way, Akh answered it better than I could anyways.
On another note, It could also be that the overall capability of the design and a lack of funds created a situation where by the time they had enough money to make more of the F22P series, the design and it’s capabilities were no longer worth the cost. And given just how tight funds were for the navy throughout the War on terror years (up until 2016-17), it could just be that they never had money at all and couldn’t make more, even though they had them planned.

Hopefully we will see a different story with Hangor, Babur and Jinnah class.

 

[Tornado23]

Pakistan receives new Chinese-made frigate. How will it fare against India’s Navy?

Named Tughril, the frigate and its sister ships are the most powerful surface vessels planned under Pakistan’s naval modernization program, meant to redress a conventional imbalance with India.

www.defensenews.com

India’s Navy “maintains a significant numbers and capability advantage over Pakistan” despite its own programs having suffered “significant delays”

Why did you feel the need to post this? It has nothing to do with the f22p

 

[Super Falcon]

Pak navy should use them as anti air frigate

 

[Tornado23]

Pak navy should use them as anti air frigate

It only has short range SAMs. Perhaps in this MLU they can be upgraded with a stronger SAM. Perhaps a ESSM type SAM can be fitted onto it as a replacement for the HHQ7?

 

[Ghessan]

It only has short range SAMs. Perhaps in this MLU they can be upgraded with a stronger SAM. Perhaps a ESSM type SAM can be fitted onto it as a replacement for the HHQ7?

I don't know why but i think PN has some plan in place, after induction of Tughril and Milgem class. They will give a condiderable upgrade to these ships and will be a potent comeback.

 

[HRK]

Why did you feel the need to post this? It has nothing to do with the f22p

Do you understand the term tatey chukna .....

the member you have quoted is doing the same here ....

 

[Super Falcon]

It only has short range SAMs. Perhaps in this MLU they can be upgraded with a stronger SAM. Perhaps a ESSM type SAM can be fitted onto it as a replacement for the HHQ7?

I think PN should integrate pantsir tupe system which will defend the ship and be as air drfence weapon and integrate high altitude aor defence system and get rid of front gun

 

[Tornado23]

Do you understand the term tatey chukna .....

the member you have quoted is doing the same here ....

Bon plan is the type of dude to LARP as someone from france but is actually Indian....wait

I think PN should integrate pantsir tupe system which will defend the ship and be as air drfence weapon and integrate high altitude aor defence system and get rid of front gun

So a kashtan type CIWS/point defence system? The type 054AP is more of an air defence ship. Longer range sams, 32 cell VLS and so on. The front gun (76mm) can also engage aircraft and other airborne targets as well.

 

[Super Falcon]

What exactly upgrade zulfqar class frigates will be getting

 

[Tornado23]

What exactly upgrade zulfqar class frigates will be getting

Radars for now

 

[Super Falcon]

Radars for now

Which radars exactly
But if you cannot havecweapons to match the radars range than they are useless

Im sick of stupid fm 90 on these ships with just 8 cells

If india sends 24 jets and half of these missiles got decoyed than these ships are at IAF mercy

 

[Battlion25]

Which radars exactly
But if you cannot havecweapons to match the radars range than they are useless

Im sick of stupid fm 90 on these ships with just 8 cells

If india sends 24 jets and half of these missiles got decoyed than these ships are at IAF mercy

What are you on about.. These jets will be toasted before they even reach our shores