KJ-500- medum size AEW/C

[gambit]

No, I never said that stealth is useless. It could be very useful against countries that don't have Chinese type of radars. Countries like Japan, India and Vietnam for China. and countries like Pakistan, Iran, North Korea and the rest for USA.
All previous generation aircrafts can be seen on radars, it doesn't mean any country has stopped producing them because of that.
Now we see with these developments that stealth can be countered as well. It's a start, it's not the end.

In that case, what countries are China planning to use the J-20 against? I am -- based on personal experience -- %100 confident that the US know how to detect low radar observable bodies long before China built the experimental J-20. So going by your logic, it would be useless to use the J-20 against US and our allies, which pretty much surrounds China.

You are gullible enough to believe that press release, but lay that aside for now.

 

[nangyale]

In that case, what countries are China planning to use the J-20 against? I am -- based on personal experience -- %100 confident that the US know how to detect low radar observable bodies long before China built the experimental J-20. So going by your logic, it would be useless to use the J-20 against US and our allies, which pretty much surrounds China.

You are gullible enough to believe that press release, but lay that aside for now.

I am sure if China can develop a radar that can detect stealth objects so can the USA, based on what you are saying maybe they already have such tech.
But this doesn't mean that all US allies will be having such tech as well. Pakistan is an ally of the US, would US give such tech to Pakistan? I don't think so. F-22 is the best fighter that USA currently fields, which other allies has it been exported to? I am sure if it was available Japan and Australia would love to have it. Look the thing is like I said it's a start. Let's wait and see what comes latter.

Calm down

 

[gambit]

I am sure if China can develop a radar that can detect stealth objects so can the USA, based on what you are saying maybe they already have such tech.
But this doesn't mean that all US allies will be having such tech as well. Pakistan is an ally of the US, would US give such tech to Pakistan? I don't think so. F-22 is the best fighter that USA currently fields, which other allies has it been exported to? I am sure if it was available Japan and Australia would love to have it. Look the thing is like I said it's a start. Let's wait and see what comes latter.

Calm down

What I said was that China allegedly have 'stealth' defeating radars. Think about this for a moment. What basis does China have to make such a claim when China does not yet have a 'stealth' platform? Sorry, but the J-20 does not count.

 

[nangyale]

What I said was that China allegedly have 'stealth' defeating radars. Think about this for a moment. What basis does China have to make such a claim when China does not yet have a 'stealth' platform? Sorry, but the J-20 does not count.

Mate, I am not sitting inside China's military R&D department (actually I am quite far away from China at the moment). I only replied to what was posted by a member. If you think the photograph is manipulated or that kind of radar wouldn't do what the article says feel free to point it out, I am no expert in that.
You said all US allies would have anti-stealth technology I told you that it's not for sure. Feel free to prove your point.
Don't get angry man. China is not gonna take over USA yet.

 

[sincity]

What I said was that China allegedly have 'stealth' defeating radars. Think about this for a moment. What basis does China have to make such a claim when China does not yet have a 'stealth' platform? Sorry, but the J-20 does not count.

What make you such an expert to discard the J-20 not to be stealth fighter? What your credential to make that kind of assertion?

 

[gambit]

What make you such an expert to discard the J-20 not to be stealth fighter? What your credential to make that kind of assertion?

First of all...The word 'stealth' is an inappropriate word to describe these so called '5th gen' aircrafts. The correct phrase is 'low radar observable'.

Second...In radar detection, NOTHING is invisible. Radar sees all, but the question is at what distance.

Third...A clean F-16 set the 'stealth' crossover threshold, meaning if any body that claimed to be 'low radar observable' cannot meet this minimum standard, that body cannot rightly be called 'stealthy'.

So unless China release hard measurement data for the J-20, data that not even the USAF is willing to share for the F-117, then it is only FAITH that the J-20 is as 'low radar observable' as claimed. Faith, as in religious sort. Unfortunately for China, the US have combat results to substitute for hard measurement data to back up our claim for the F-117 and what we learned from the -117 gave US the F-22, F-35, and B-2.

And please spare the forum what the Australians did for the J-20. It was a laugh.

Mate, I am not sitting inside China's military R&D department (actually I am quite far away from China at the moment). I only replied to what was posted by a member. If you think the photograph is manipulated or that kind of radar wouldn't do what the article says feel free to point it out, I am no expert in that.
You said all US allies would have anti-stealth technology I told you that it's not for sure. Feel free to prove your point.
Don't get angry man. China is not gonna take over USA yet.

Half of radar detection is hardware, half is data processing, and we are the world's leader in both. I am not here to prove the 'how' of how we can/will/have defeated 'stealth'. I have explained and cleared up all of this forum's misunderstanding about radar detection and 'stealth'. Your Chinese friends have contributed NOTHING to that effect. What I know I will not cross the line and many here understand why. You are free to be as doubtful about US as you like. Just like how most of the world's militaries were doubtful of Desert Storm.

 

[sincity]

First of all...The word 'stealth' is an inappropriate word to describe these so called '5th gen' aircrafts. The correct phrase is 'low radar observable'.

Second...In radar detection, NOTHING is invisible. Radar sees all, but the question is at what distance.

Third...A clean F-16 set the 'stealth' crossover threshold, meaning if any body that claimed to be 'low radar observable' cannot meet this minimum standard, that body cannot rightly be called 'stealthy'.

So unless China release hard measurement data for the J-20, data that not even the USAF is willing to do for the F-117, then it is only FAITH that the J-20 is as 'low radar observable' as claimed. Faith, as in religious sort. Unfortunately for China, the US have combat results to substitute for hard measurement data to back up our claim for the F-117 and what we learned from the -117 gave US the F-22, F-35, and B-2.





And please spare the forum what the Australians did for the J-20. It was a laugh.


Half of radar detection is hardware, half is data processing, and we are the world's leader in both. I am not here to prove the 'how' of how we can/will/have defeated 'stealth'. I have explained and cleared up all of this forum's misunderstanding about radar detection and 'stealth'. Your Chinese friends have contributed NOTHING to that effect. What I know I will not cross the line and many here understand why. You are free to be as doubtful about US as you like. Just like how most of the world's militaries were doubtful of Desert Storm.

First of all, J-20 is China stealth fighter jet production, they invest their money, time, and man power to build a jet to meet the demand with China criteria for the 5 generation stealth jet. China build their jet to serve China air force not the US air force. China aerospace industry need to meet the requirement by the request of China air force. Whatever the process US apply to build US stealth fighter jet program unnecessary meet the requirement to China 5 generation fighter jet. The only people with a credential and qualification to claim J-20 isn't a 5 generation fighter jet are China air force generals after the test result at hand which determine J-20 not meet China air force requirement of a 5 generation fighter jet. The claim have to come from the horses mouth with the people involves in the project and the air force department evaluation of the program.

 

[antonius123]

First of all...The word 'stealth' is an inappropriate word to describe these so called '5th gen' aircrafts. The correct phrase is 'low radar observable'.

Second...In radar detection, NOTHING is invisible. Radar sees all, but the question is at what distance.

Third...A clean F-16 set the 'stealth' crossover threshold, meaning if any body that claimed to be 'low radar observable' cannot meet this minimum standard, that body cannot rightly be called 'stealthy'.

So unless China release hard measurement data for the J-20, data that not even the USAF is willing to share for the F-117, then it is only FAITH that the J-20 is as 'low radar observable' as claimed. Faith, as in religious sort. Unfortunately for China, the US have combat results to substitute for hard measurement data to back up our claim for the F-117 and what we learned from the -117 gave US the F-22, F-35, and B-2.

And please spare the forum what the Australians did for the J-20. It was a laugh.


Half of radar detection is hardware, half is data processing, and we are the world's leader in both. I am not here to prove the 'how' of how we can/will/have defeated 'stealth'. I have explained and cleared up all of this forum's misunderstanding about radar detection and 'stealth'. Your Chinese friends have contributed NOTHING to that effect. What I know I will not cross the line and many here understand why. You are free to be as doubtful about US as you like. Just like how most of the world's militaries were doubtful of Desert Storm.

This kind of FAITH is only applied to you old man

If you dont believe J-20 is stealthy it doesnt matter, your belief would not change reality.

Some experts have suggested that from shaping J-20 meet the stealth requirements, and it doesnt require J-20 to be in operation to test the radar that is able to detect stealth fighter.

 

[Jazzbot]

And the thread has been derailed brilliantly

 

[gambit]

First of all, J-20 is China stealth fighter jet production, they invest their money, time, and man power to build a jet to meet the demand with China criteria for the 5 generation stealth jet. China build their jet to serve China air force not the US air force. China aerospace industry need to meet the requirement by the request of China air force. Whatever the process US apply to build US stealth fighter jet program unnecessary meet the requirement to China 5 generation fighter jet. The only people with a credential and qualification to claim J-20 isn't a 5 generation fighter jet are China air force generals after the test result at hand which determine J-20 not meet China air force requirement of a 5 generation fighter jet. The claim have to come from the horses mouth with the people involves in the project and the air force department evaluation of the program.

I can call the Sopwith Camel 'stealthy' if I wanted to. Like it or not, the J-20 is more based on the MIG 1.44 than the F-22 is based on the F-15. Much more. I know the Chinese and their suck-ups does not like it, but that is the truth.

When you rounded out a cube, you WILL get a lower radar cross section (RCS). That is what happened to the 1.44 to produce the J-20 and what Boeing did for the F-15 body to become the Silent Eagle. But while the rounded cube will produce a lower RCS, under aspect changes, aka 'maneuvers', the lower RCS will exhibit signatures that is characteristics of a cube, namely the flat sides, and if the data processing is sophisticated enough, the newly rounded cube will be classified as a cube.

Under real physics, not 'Chinese physics', radar signatures that is known for a layout like the 1.44 or any other canard-ed fighter will be with the J-20 and if measurement data does not lower the J-20 under a certain threshold, the J-20 will be detected. The label 'stealth' is irrelevant in the face of hard measurement data.

 

[sincity]

I can call the Sopwith Camel 'stealthy' if I wanted to. Like it or not, the J-20 is more based on the MIG 1.44 than the F-22 is based on the F-15. Much more. I know the Chinese and their suck-ups does not like it, but that is the truth.

When you rounded out a cube, you WILL get a lower radar cross section (RCS). That is what happened to the 1.44 to produce the J-20 and what Boeing did for the F-15 body to become the Silent Eagle. But while the rounded cube will produce a lower RCS, under aspect changes, aka 'maneuvers', the lower RCS will exhibit signatures that is characteristics of a cube, namely the flat sides, and if the data processing is sophisticated enough, the newly rounded cube will be classified as a cube.

Under real physics, not 'Chinese physics', radar signatures that is known for a layout like the 1.44 or any other canard-ed fighter will be with the J-20 and if measurement data does not lower the J-20 under a certain threshold, the J-20 will be detected. The label 'stealth' is irrelevant in the face of hard measurement data.

Don't give me your technical analysis on J-20, your not J-20 project supervisor and don't have the full or any knowledge of the program. Your opinion is just as good as mine, worthless and nothing to further discuss what is and what not consider a stealth fighter jet.

 

[antonius123]

I can call the Sopwith Camel 'stealthy' if I wanted to. Like it or not, the J-20 is more based on the MIG 1.44 than the F-22 is based on the F-15. Much more. I know the Chinese and their suck-ups does not like it, but that is the truth.

When you rounded out a cube, you WILL get a lower radar cross section (RCS). That is what happened to the 1.44 to produce the J-20 and what Boeing did for the F-15 body to become the Silent Eagle. But while the rounded cube will produce a lower RCS, under aspect changes, aka 'maneuvers', the lower RCS will exhibit signatures that is characteristics of a cube, namely the flat sides, and if the data processing is sophisticated enough, the newly rounded cube will be classified as a cube.

Under real physics, not 'Chinese physics', radar signatures that is known for a layout like the 1.44 or any other canard-ed fighter will be with the J-20 and if measurement data does not lower the J-20 under a certain threshold, the J-20 will be detected. The label 'stealth' is irrelevant in the face of hard measurement data.

Here come pdf warrior again

Chinese physics can bring man to moon.
Your physics is a stock of laughing.

 

[nangyale]

Half of radar detection is hardware, half is data processing, and we are the world's leader in both. I am not here to prove the 'how' of how we can/will/have defeated 'stealth'. I have explained and cleared up all of this forum's misunderstanding about radar detection and 'stealth'. Your Chinese friends have contributed NOTHING to that effect. What I know I will not cross the line and many here understand why. You are free to be as doubtful about US as you like. Just like how most of the world's militaries were doubtful of Desert Storm.

Look the US may have given the world stealth or low observable (whatever you prefer) aircrafts. But it doesn't mean they will forever be the leaders in stealth and anti-stealth technology.
The Soviets were the first to put a satellite in orbit, they are not the leaders in satellite technology today. I can give you more examples but I leave it at that.
So half of radar detection is hardware and half is data processing. No one is arguing with that. The US were the world leaders in computing technology, but if you look today most of American computing hardware is coming from China. The very country that you seem to be so dismissive about.
The Chinese have built something that they are claiming to be able to detect current gen stealth planes. We have photos and a brief article supporting that. I haven't seen an American version of the same, you seem to be telling the world that whatever China has built or will ever build, the US will always have better, we don't need to provide any proof but coz we are Americans, you know we are the best.
You also said the all US allies in the vicinity of China will also have this secretive American anti-stealth tech. Again you haven't provided any proof.
I hope you will provide some proof for your points, and I will be the first to agree with you. But if you are asking everyone to believe you coz it's the words of an American, then I am sorry but that's not how things work anymore.

 

[Beidou2020]

Guys ignore gambit, no one takes that guy seriously.

 

[gambit]

Here come pdf warrior again

Chinese physics can bring man to moon.

Actually, that was real physics. 'Chinese physics' are what we are seeing HERE.

Look the US may have given the world stealth or low observable (whatever you prefer) aircrafts. But it doesn't mean they will forever be the leaders in stealth and anti-stealth technology.

May be not forever, but long enough to make a great difference.

So half of radar detection is hardware and half is data processing. No one is arguing with that. The US were the world leaders in computing technology, but if you look today most of American computing hardware is coming from China. The very country that you seem to be so dismissive about.

You think that just because China manufactures motherboards and assorted civilian computer doo-dads that it automatically means the F-16's Flight Controls Computer and its test stations were built in China? But let us grant you the latitude that some components were manufactured in China, what does that prove for China other than the fact that Chinese manufacturers can follow instructions? The phrase 'coming from China' is loaded and is meaningless.

The Chinese have built something that they are claiming to be able to detect current gen stealth planes. We have photos and a brief article supporting that. I haven't seen an American version of the same, you seem to be telling the world that whatever China has built or will ever build, the US will always have better, we don't need to provide any proof but coz we are Americans, you know we are the best.

Sorry, but you cannot 'see' data processing, other than eyeballing the radar scope display. Of course, when J-20 pilots saw missiles coming straight down their jets' intakes they will be the recipients of that data processing capability.