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Deployment of THAAD: News & Discussions

THAAD is not a "strike" missiles... it's just an anti-ballistic missile system with no warhead...
And I don't want to be on any side...
But As China want to defend herself from others... South Korea as a right to defend herself from N.Korea, even tho' it's a foreign sys... it's like patriot sys with NATO states...

So in The End , What you want to yourself, you should want it to others too... South Korea is not an enemy of China, but yet, China couldn't give proper "secure" condition that N.Korea will stop their madness... So ofc S.Korea will search for any outside help, and in this situation the US.

Other call it "strategical" schemes or whatever... yet S.Korea as a right to defend herself. Period.

Even China do not like it either... their "ally" from N.Korea have begun to bite back... Next time they should choose more wisely their "proxies"


THAAD is meant to protect the US and Japan not SK, it's incapable to do so. Just look at the map see how close is Seoul to NK border, if war breaks out NK will rush into Seoul in no time and they can use truck to deliver nukes to Seoul.
 
If US push China to be a strategically disadvantage and corner China to be on last stand, militarize the space is the solution, if China put nukes into space just over US's head, American will have the sleepless night, China don't even need foreign base, if anything nasty happen to China, US shall be forfeited as well.
LOL ... the only problem here is, does Deng's China wanna a WAR ? They r (in BeiJing) just a bang of businessmen & bureaucrat who already lost Mao's belief ... don't tell me those capitalists or politicians can stand for most Chinese folks, instead of their interests & money inside China economy without WAR ? Im sure BeiJing will avoid WAR as possible as they can, even connive U.S/S.K war with North Korea, BeiJing just wanna watch outside to follow Deng's "韬光养晦"~!
 
THAAD is not a "strike" missiles... it's just an anti-ballistic missile system with no warhead...
And I don't want to be on any side...
But As China want to defend herself from others... South Korea as a right to defend herself from N.Korea, even tho' it's a foreign sys... it's like patriot sys with NATO states...

So in The End , What you want to yourself, you should want it to others too... South Korea is not an enemy of China, but yet, China couldn't give proper "secure" condition that N.Korea will stop their madness... So ofc S.Korea will search for any outside help, and in this situation the US.

Other call it "strategical" schemes or whatever... yet S.Korea as a right to defend herself. Period.

Even China do not like it either... their "ally" from N.Korea have begun to bite back... Next time they should choose more wisely their "proxies"

THAAD by itself does not protect SK. It's a weapon designed against medium and longer range ballistic missiles, which NK will not use against SK since it's too close. THAAD I believe will also be deployed out of range of Seoul.

However, it WILL threaten China, because China's nuclear posture is not Mutually Assured Destruction, but Minimal Deterrence. This posture relies on the potential destruction of a few population centers rather than the complete annihilation of an entire country as deterrence, which makes it much more vulnerable to missile defense measures. A component of missile defense is early detection, and THAAD provides that.

As such, THAAD is a system that is absolutely useless for SK, but is an existential threat to China. South Koreans are not Chinese people's enemy, but SK the state is. As I stated in another thead, SK is a state whose military is trained, equipped, and in times of war commanded by the U.S. as per SK law. Its military and thus its sovereignty is controlled by the U.S., and it represents the greatest threat to China since the fall of the USSR.
 
THAAD by itself does not protect SK. It's a weapon designed against medium and longer range ballistic missiles, which NK will not use against SK since it's too close. THAAD I believe will also be deployed out of range of Seoul.

However, it WILL threaten China, because China's nuclear posture is not Mutually Assured Destruction, but Minimal Deterrence. This posture relies on the potential destruction of a few population centers rather than the complete annihilation of an entire country as deterrence, which makes it much more vulnerable to missile defense measures. A component of missile defense is early detection, and THAAD provides that.

As such, THAAD is a system that is absolutely useless for SK, but is an existential threat to China. South Koreans are not Chinese people's enemy, but SK the state is. As I stated in another thead, SK is a state whose military is trained, equipped, and in times of war commanded by the U.S. as per SK law. Its military and thus its sovereignty is controlled by the U.S., and it represents the greatest threat to China since the fall of the USSR.

SK is not China enemy... USA is not China Enemy... Japan is not China enemy... South Asia countries are not China enemies...
China has almost non "direct" enemies... She only believe in threats "in case of" and that's a difference...

In the End SK can deploy whatever sys in her land, like China do. Whatever it's a chess game from the US or not, SK is not a vessel, But yes US politcs have a great part in SK geopolitics and moves but in the end of the Day, you can't close your eyes to a reality... that is NK with his Balistic nuclear warhead. Period.
THAAD can (on paper) intercept those incoming threats...
The only problem , is that China wanted to make a buffer zone around her, for any incoming "future" threats/war... But with SK & Japan she can't since, The US is around there...

NK is China "ally" and vice versa, the problem is, NK is not as submissible as before, therefore China's only bargain chip against the "others" is not that durable and reliable as before... And The US and the enemies of NK in the region took this opportunity of the weakness from China diplomacy with NK and deployed those "sys"...

THAAD is meant to protect the US and Japan not SK, it's incapable to do so. Just look at the map see how close is Seoul to NK border, if war breaks out NK will rush into Seoul in no time and they can use truck to deliver nukes to Seoul.

THAAD can do his job (on paper at least), but whatever NK attack SK by land or not, it's not the Q, those Ballistic missiles are "Nuclear" capable... so yes it's better to have a "Chance" to intercept than letting dozens of Millions of ppl in seoul getting nuked... by someone who think madness is a Quality...
 
SK is not China enemy... USA is not China Enemy... Japan is not China enemy... South Asia countries are not China enemies...
China has almost non "direct" enemies... She only believe in threats "in case of" and that's a difference...

In the End SK can deploy whatever sys in her land, like China do. Whatever it's a chess game from the US or not, SK is not a vessel, But yes US politcs have a great part in SK geopolitics and moves but in the end of the Day, you can't close your eyes to a reality... that is NK with his Balistic nuclear warhead. Period.
THAAD can (on paper) intercept those incoming threats...
The only problem , is that China wanted to make a buffer zone around her, for any incoming "future" threats/war... But with SK & Japan she can't since, The US is around there...

NK is China "ally" and vice versa, the problem is, NK is not as submissible as before, therefore China's only bargain chip against the "others" is not that durable and reliable as before... And The US and the enemies of NK in the region took this opportunity of the weakness from China diplomacy with NK and deployed those "sys"...



THAAD can do his job (on paper at least), but whatever NK attack SK by land or not, it's not the Q, those Ballistic missiles are "Nuclear" capable... so yes it's better to have a "Chance" to intercept than letting dozens of Millions of ppl in seoul getting nuked... by someone who think madness is a Quality...

Please tell me, how can THAAD, even on paper, intercept those incoming threats? How can a missile with a MAXIMUM range (useful range is almost always significantly less than the max) of ~200km be able to protect Seoul, which is more than 200km away the Seongju Country Club? How can a missile designed to counter medium and long range ballistic missiles be able to hit SRBMs with any consistency? (details explained here: http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_international/697543.html)
 
Please tell me, how can THAAD, even on paper, intercept those incoming threats? How can a missile with a MAXIMUM range (useful range is almost always significantly less than the max) of ~200km be able to protect Seoul, which is more than 200km away the Seongju Country Club? How can a missile designed to counter medium and long range ballistic missiles be able to hit SRBMs with any consistency? (details explained here: http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_international/697543.html)

Read the End of your article... bf throwing it here... In The End till this Day we don't know if THAAD can or cannot hit it... When the moment come we will see..; but till this Day we have to "assume" it can work ( since no past exemple of this sys was used against such threat) Therefore it's only natural to "Feel" safe... Period

And let's not jump on any horses... the sys deployed in SK will be only with few launchers... So for China THAAD is useless for her... She can easily make rain Missile on SK ... The only concern of China is not the Sys, BUT the power balance in the region with the US involvment... let's not play dumb will you..

Since China can't say " I dont want The US near me.. so she says I Don't want THAAD near me" Period
 
Read the End of your article... bf throwing it here... In The End till this Day we don't know if THAAD can or cannot hit it... When the moment come we will see..; but till this Day we have to "assume" it can work ( since no past exemple of this sys was used against such threat) Therefore it's only natural to "Feel" safe... Period

And let's not jump on any horses... the sys deployed in SK will be only with few launchers... So for China THAAD is useless for her... She can easily make rain Missile on SK ... The only concern of China is not the Sys, BUT the power balance in the region with the US involvment... let's not play dumb will you..

Since China can't say " I dont want The US near me.. so she says I Don't want THAAD near me" Period

The launchers are not what China is concerned about, it's the radars. As I explained a few posts up, China's minimal deterrence posture relies on the threat of being able to attack a few enemy cities instead of overwhelming numbers like the Russians and the Americans. Early warning is crucial to successful interceptions, and the radars that come with THAAD will erode China's nuclear deterrence considerably.

In other words, THAAD's radar system can significantly increases the chance of intercepting a few missiles, which is inconsequential to a nation that can launch thousands but is very significant to a nation that can only launch dozens.

Also, if you've been keeping up with the events in the SCS, China can and does say "I don't want the US near me". What it can't do is actually make the US do what it wants. It's different with SK, however, as it's far less powerful than the US and there's at least a chance for China to get what it wants with SK, which is why the pressure is laid on SK and not on the US.

As for the article, we will NEVER know all the details about advanced weapons systems like THAAD, but it is clearly a system designed for medium and longer range missiles. It is far from an ideal system to deal with the North Korean threat, that SK is choosing to deploy this system speaks volumes about their true priorities. It's choosing THAAD's radars which are optimal for protecting the U.S. rather than THAAD's missiles which are suboptimal for protecting SK, as it should for being a good American vassal.
 
Please tell me, how can THAAD, even on paper, intercept those incoming threats? How can a missile with a MAXIMUM range (useful range is almost always significantly less than the max) of ~200km be able to protect Seoul, which is more than 200km away the Seongju Country Club? How can a missile designed to counter medium and long range ballistic missiles be able to hit SRBMs with any consistency? (details explained here: http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_international/697543.html)

How about its protecting further South Korea in the south and as well as Japan? Think about all the military assets that could blunt an invasion force with air bases in the South. And North Korea is not going to put their launchers close to the DMZ when an invasion starts. They have to be further back.

Why would North Korea need to develop and launch long range missiles? Especially towards Japan. Perhaps to deter U.S. forces that will come in from Japan when North Korea invades? Lessons learned from Korean War then.
 
https://www.japantoday.com/category/world/view/s-koreas-lotte-family-owners-go-on-trial-for-graft

Lotte group chairman Shin Dong-Bin. his father, brother and sister are on trial for emzzlement, tax evasion and fraud AFP

SEOUL —

Four members of the family who control South Korea’s troubled retail giant Lotte, including its 93-year-old founder, went on trial Monday for embezzlement, tax evasion and fraud.

The proceedings against company chairman Shin Dong-Bin, 61, his brother, sister and father—plus the patriarch’s mistress nearly 40 years his junior—come as the South’s fifth-biggest conglomerate endures a barrage of condemnation from China.

The company provided land to Seoul to host a US missile defence system, infuriating Beijing, and nearly 90 percent of its Chinese Lotte Mart stores have since been forced to close by either authorities or angry demonstrations.

The trial is the latest blow to the reputations of the family-controlled conglomerates, or “chaebols”, that powered South Korea’s economic growth in past decades.

More recently they have increasingly become the focus of public anger over corruption and inequality, as in the scandal that saw president Park Guen-Hye removed from office earlier this month.

Lotte chairman Shin is accused of costing the firm 175 billion won ($155 million) through a series of tax evasions, financial scams and irregularities.

He has been also charged with negligence for awarding lucrative deals or paying “wages” worth millions of dollars to relatives who made little contribution to management.

“I am sorry for causing concern. I will cooperate with the trial sincerely,” Shin told reporters, bowing briefly before entering the courtroom Monday afternoon.

Similar charges were levelled against his older brother Shin Dong-Joo, his older sister Shin Young-Ja, as well as their father Shin Kyuk-Ho.

It was not clear whether the nonagenarian founder was in court, but he did not pass through the gauntlet of reporters packing the entrance to the court building in Seoul.

His 57-year-old mistress was also charged with embezzlement for pocketing large sums in “wages” although she had little role in management.

The five were formally indicted by prosecutors in October.

Their alleged offences are not directly connected to the scandal that brought down Park.

The Seoul-based group, founded in Tokyo in 1948, has a vast network of businesses in South Korea and Japan with combined assets valued at more than $90 billion.

The decision by Seoul to deploy the U.S. Terminal High Altitude Defense (THAAD) system to guard against threats from the nuclear-armed North angered China, which fears it would undermine its own military capabilities.

The first parts of the THAAD system arrived in the South two weeks ago after Lotte signed a land swap deal to provide a golf course in the southern county of Seongju to host the missile batteries.

Since then officials have shut down dozens of Lotte retail stores in China, ostensibly over “safety issues” as angry protestors hold demonstrations across China denouncing the group and other South Korean businesses.

Lotte, focused on food, retail and hotel businesses, has invested more than $8 billion in its Chinese operations and has more than 120 outlets in the country, with 26,000 local employees.

The Shin family become targets of state probes after 2015 when a bitter and very public fight between the two brothers for control of the group fanned public anger over how the South’s dominant family-run conglomerates conduct their business affairs.

The feud saw highly public mudslinging between Shin Dong-Bin and Shin Dong-Joo, with accusations of mismanagement, personality flaws, and manipulating their frail, aged father whose mental faculties had been called into question.

The dispute ended after board members sided with Shin Dong-Bin, but Lotte since then has come under tougher regulatory scrutiny, with state probes targeting the Shins.
 
How about its protecting further South Korea in the south and as well as Japan? Think about all the military assets that could blunt an invasion force with air bases in the South. And North Korea is not going to put their launchers close to the DMZ when an invasion starts. They have to be further back.

Why would North Korea need to develop and launch long range missiles? Especially towards Japan. Perhaps to deter U.S. forces that will come in from Japan when North Korea invades? Lessons learned from Korean War then.

You know that's a weak argument. Why would they choose to leave Seoul open to attack if their goal is truly to protect themselves from NK missiles? MRBMs' minimum range is 1000km, less than the entire span of the Korean peninsula.

Also, threatening Japan is nice, but NK's real goal is to threaten the U.S. Developing missiles that can hit Japan is a step toward developing ones that can hit continental U.S., it's a mean, not an end.
 
You know that's a weak argument. Why would they choose to leave Seoul open to attack if their goal is truly to protect themselves from NK missiles? MRBMs' minimum range is 1000km, less than the entire span of the Korean peninsula.

Also, threatening Japan is nice, but NK's real goal is to threaten the U.S. Developing missiles that can hit Japan is a step toward developing ones that can hit continental U.S., it's a mean, not an end.

Not a weak argument. Destroy the capitol or capturing it doesn't mean war is lost. You should know that from history. But like you said North Korea wants to threaten U.S. To prevent U.S. from countering another invasion by North Korea.
 
"The existence of a global missile defense system lowers the threshold of nuclear arms use, because the illusion of impunity of a sudden use of strategic nuclear weapons under an umbrella of a missile defense is being created in the Unites States."

In July 2016, Washington and Seoul reached an agreement on placing a US Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) system on South Korean soil. In early March, the THAAD deployment began in response to North Korea's ballistic missile tests.

The system is designed to intercept short, medium and intermediate ballistic missiles at the terminal incoming stage.

A THAAD battery consists of six truck-mounted launchers, 48 interceptors, a mobile control and communications center and an AN/TPY-2 radar.

Earlier head of the Russian Foreign Ministry Department for Non-Proliferation and Arms Control Mikhail Ulyanov stated that Russia and China are increasing
 
Then again, we already knew that didn't we?

http://thediplomat.com/2017/04/ex-c...south-korea-will-vindicate-chinas-skepticism/

Ex-CIA Director's Take on THAAD in South Korea Will Vindicate China's Skepticism
Michael Hayden’s recent comments on THAAD will vindicate Beijing’s view on the missile defense system.

thediplomat_2017-01-17_04-07-14-36x36.jpg

By Ankit Panda
April 05, 2017


Last year, the United States and South Korea decided together to deploy a U.S. Terminal High-Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) missile defense system to better defend against North Korea’s steadily improving ballistic missile capabilities. The decision to deploy the system deeply rankled China, for reasons I’ve discussed in some detail before.

Beijing is so upset about THAAD that it has unofficially sanctioned South Korean firms and driven its relationship with Seoul into the ground. Prior to the THAAD dust-up, the two countries were steadily converging through 2015 and former South Korean President Park Geun-hye had even attended China’s 2015 parade to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the end of World War II.

For the longest time, Washington has been trying to assuage Beijing’s fears about THAAD by offering reassurance that the system’s deployment is South Korea’s sovereign decision and that the system itself is only directed at North Korea. Beijing is concerned about the powerful AN/TPY-2 X-band radar that accompanies the THAAD battery, but repeatedly refused technical talk offers from the United States.

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U.S. messaging on this count has been consistent, with a senior administration official noting on Tuesday in a background briefing before U.S. President Donald Trump’s upcoming meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping that “there will be no move away from protecting our South Korean allies and the United States.”

Also on Tuesday, speaking at an event at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies, former Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Michael Hayden took a different tack to describe THAAD. Hayden, speaking about the problem the United States faces in eliciting Chinese assistance in wrangling North Korea, noted that Beijing treats the North Korean problem as a “toothache,” but has so far avoided going in for a “root canal” to solve the problem, preferring painkillers.

Hayden went on, discussing ways Washington could get that “toothache” to hurt more for China: “Frankly, we did that. President Obama did that with the deployment of THAAD,” he said. “We planted this high-end air defense system in South Korea that has obvious implications for the Chinese because the radar fans go all the way through Manchuria,” he said. “There are things like that, actions we could take that are logical and useful to defend against this particular kind of threat that we should not forgo merely because it would upset the Chinese.”

That marks the most drastic reframing of the THAAD issue from a former U.S. official to my knowledge and will no doubt serve to affirm and vindicate fears about the system in Beijing (a reminder, though, that Hayden did not serve in government during the evaluation of and decision to deploy THAAD and AN/TPY-2). Hayden’s comments will no doubt undermine the case made recently in Foreign Policy by Abe Denmark, a former Obama Department of Defense official, that China’s fear of THAAD is disingenuous.

What’s notable about Hayden’s comments is less the technical observation that the AN/TPY-2 radar reaches into Manchuria — something I’d said was likely in my examination of how the radar might or might not degrade China’s confidence in its own second strike capability. Rather, it’s the entire framing of the THAAD deployment as a point of pressure on China. Even if there was no intent by the Obama administration for the THAAD system to act as an incentive for China to acquiesce on U.S. demands toward North Korea, this framing from a source like Hayden will be taken seriously in Beijing.
 
the fundamental reason for Hyundai/Kia's sales decline in China is because of Korean cars' weakening product performance advantage against Chinese branded cars. We've seen similar trends happening in white goods, smartphones,etc., now it happens in car space too. But of course, the disputes on Thaad makes the process accelerated.
You are on the right path, but should push harder. Much harder. The Koreans take a hit but aren't impressed. the kimchi gang will continue the business with a different means.

Very positive growth numbers. No wonder Koreans feel it; and feel it first, probably, also because of the geopolitical situation.

Do you have growth numbers for Changan? I have great interest in their CS SUV line; especially the recently released CS95.
The Koreans are smart. If you haven't noticed they are developing a strategy to survive Chinese mainland retaliation. Actually a very interesting lesson for every student who studies economics as main subject.
 
You are on the right path, but should push harder. Much harder. The Koreans take a hit but aren't impressed. the kimchi gang will continue the business with a different means.


The Koreans are smart. If you haven't noticed they are developing a strategy to survive Chinese mainland retaliation. Actually a very interesting lesson for every student who studies economics as main subject.

Yeah the Koreans are very smart indeed! Set up weapons against its biggest export market :cheesy:
 

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