CIA agents hunt bin Laden from inside Waziristan

[SeaGull]

I don't have a problem with accepting that 9/11 was carried out by Arab hijackers and even that Bin Laden might have 'mastermined' it.

But I believe that these were just foot soldiers and the people pulling the strings have not yet been apprehended.

ANALOGOUS TO THE TEHRIK-E-TALIBAN BUSINESS?
SUPER!!

 

[Comet]

I don't have a problem with accepting that 9/11 was carried out by Arab hijackers and even that Bin Laden might have 'mastermined' it.

But I believe that these were just foot soldiers and the people pulling the strings have not yet been apprehended.

I agree with you...

Imagine people planning this big and not preparing for the reaction. The people living in caves and fighting the might of US and Allied forces with the help light weapons, are definitely capable of acting this big.

 

[SeaGull]

It is always the foot soldiers who are the 'fall guy' the masterminds remain out of view, out of sight and sure, out of the danger as well/

 

[gambit]

Charge: That the US, with Israeli accomplice, murdered 2800 US citizens to justify a war to 'steal' Iraqi oil.

Question: What the hell is so special about Iraqi oil? If we framed 19 Saudis, then why war first against Afghanistan and later Iraq?

If I was Bush...

Prior to Sept, 2001, under a NATO sea exercise, I would station two US aircraft carrier groups in the Med. and work the fleet hard as exercises generally do. In the meantime, as by Sept, 2001, Iraq was already under some measure of US occupation in northern Iraq and strict UN supervision for the rest under the coercive nuclear inspection and enforcement regime, I would prepare northern Iraq for deployment of a Rapid Deloyment Force contingent. Then on Sept 11, 2001, I would murder 2800 of my own citizens. With 'evidences' that implicated Osama bin Laden, al-Qaeda, nineteen Saudi citizens and possibly members of the Saudi Royalty itself, I would have no problems convincing the US Congress to formally declare war on Saudi Arabia, all under the ruins of the WTC towers and the wailings of US citizens who lost their loved ones on that day.

The men and women of my two aircraft carrier groups are tired and eager to go home, but once I am done with my speech, they will be mentally and spiritually refreshed with vengeance for 9/11 in their eyes. The carriers will move closer to shore, tacitly a threat to anyone contemplating resistance to American aggression at this point. Daffy in Libya will be as quiet as the proverbial church mouse. The Assads in Syria will express public condolences and private compliance to any US demands. Jordan, which supported Iraq in Desert Storm, will turn the other cheek to US. Behind closed doors, I will demand Jordan and Egypt crack down hard on the Palestinians and they will comply. All access to Hamas and Hezbollah will be severed. The Palestinians will be offered a choice of either submission to Israeli terms for peace or be forcibly absorbed into Jordan.

We will take over northern Iraq as staging ground for an invasion into Saudi Arabia. Saddam Hussein, already in a subordinate position, will be even more compliant to UN demands once he sees massive US forces and logistics landing on Iraqi soil without regard to Iraqi sovereignty. He want no repeat of Desert Storm by the elder Bush. Better to obey the younger Bush and remain in power, he thought. I will also send a US Marines amphibious landing force up the Red Sea. Their safe passage will be guaranteed by the threats to all from the carriers in the Med. They will attack from the west as the US Army attack from the east. Throughout the preparation, B-52s and B-1s will make themselves known during the days and B-2s during the nights. US bombers will violate every territorial airspaces and descend to the capitals to make clear the message that the US will tolerate no interferences. The Kuwaitis, victims of Iraq's brutality, will be sympathetic and will provide as much fuel as we need. In return, the US will reciprocate by paying for the fuel at above market prices.

Then the US will attack Saudi forces simultaneously from east, west and above. The Saudis will be on the receiving end of shock-and-awe and the rest of the ME will watch, each petty despot glad that he and his country are nominally 'friendly' to US. We will briefly rest to create a strong partition of Saudi Arabia to prepare for a final push south. All Saudi forces will be driven literally to the seas. We will allow a small muslim force from Jordan and Egypt to secure and eventually control of Mecca and Medina as reward for cracking down on the Palestinians as we requested. The US lost 148 in direct combat related deaths in Desert Storm. We expect similar in this hypothetical campaign against Saudi Arabia.

Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda will still be persecuted throughout the ME. Every petty despot in the region will conduct a severe internal security purge to find and eliminate al-Qaeda sympathizers. We will overthrow the Saudi Royals and will install a Saudi regime more friendly to US. OPEC will come to near collapse and the US will make an offer that none can refuse: Deal with US as head of OPEC or die as oil prices drop as we directed. Who needs Iraqi oil and that pipeline in Afghanistan?

So let me get this straight on this loony 9/11 conspiracy belief...It make 'perfect' sense that we framed 19 Saudis but war against Afghanistan and Iraq, lost a few thousands and got no oil for our efforts.

 

[Developereo]

Charge: That the US, with Israeli accomplice, murdered 2800 US citizens to justify a war to 'steal' Iraqi oil.

Correction: to further neocon (domestic and international) agenda.

I don't believe the nonsense that the Iraq war was for oil.

Also not sure why Israeli assistance would be needed in 9/11, although they have benefitted from the GWOT and associated adventures.

 

[Developereo]

First rule of disinformation: infiltrate the skeptics and plant ever more extravagant scenarios (which can be debunked easily) so as to drown out legitimate concerns amongst the forest of loonytunes conspiracies, thereby discrediting the entire skeptics movement.

 

[gambit]

First rule of disinformation: infiltrate the skeptics and plant ever more extravagant scenarios (which can be debunked easily) so as to drown out legitimate concerns amongst the forest of loonytunes conspiracies, thereby discrediting the entire skeptics movement.

Har...As if such 'rules' are formally codified somewhere. But then again, I have never been one to propose supposedly 'normal' skepticism like remote controlled airliners, dancing Mossad agents, nano-thermite, or even orbital energy weapons that can vaporize steel, I would not know how 'extravagant' any 'theory' could be. May be you could help clarify where the standards are?

Correction: to further neocon (domestic and international) agenda.

I don't believe the nonsense that the Iraq war was for oil.

Oil would be a good 'international' agenda.

Also not sure why Israeli assistance would be needed in 9/11, although they have benefitted from the GWOT and associated adventures.

Why not enlist the Mossad? The more experience, especially in the region, the better. After all, from reading how powerful the Jews are in this world according to the muslims, it would be foolish not to enlist Israeli assistance.

 

[Developereo]

Har...As if such 'rules' are formally codified somewhere.

Stick around. You may learn something yet.

But then again, I have never been one to propose supposedly 'normal' skepticism like remote controlled airliners, dancing Mossad agents, nano-thermite, or even orbital energy weapons that can vaporize steel, I would not know how 'extravagant' any 'theory' could be. May be you could help clarify where the standards are?

Dancing Mossad agents? That's a new one!
In any case you just answered your own question re: extravagant theories and disinformation.

At issue is not how 9/11 happened, but who facilitated it.

Oil would be a good 'international' agenda.

Only to the gullible.
The US gets most of its foreign oil from non Middle Eastern countries. In any case, the Arabs will sell their oil to the highest bidder.

U.S. Dependence on Foreign Oil, by Country
It's a common misconception: The United States imports most of its foreign oil from the Middle East. Not quite. Not even close. As the table below indicates, dependence on oil from the Persian Gulf represents barely 10 percent of total domestic oil consumption, and most of that oil comes from Saudi Arabia and Iraq.

Why not enlist the Mossad?

Why spread the risk?
This was an operation in the continental US, not the Middle East.

 

[gambit]

Dancing Mossad agents? That's a new one!

No...The Five Dancing Jews story have been floating around for as long as there are loony 9/11 conspiracy theories.

In any case you just answered your own question re: extravagant theories and disinformation.

Sorry...But I provided nothing of my own but from the 'Truth' movement itself.

At issue is not how 9/11 happened, but who facilitated it.

Cannot divorce the two.

Only to the gullible.
The US gets most of its foreign oil from non Middle Eastern countries. In any case, the Arabs will sell their oil to the highest bidder.

U.S. Dependence on Foreign Oil, by Country
It's a common misconception: The United States imports most of its foreign oil from the Middle East. Not quite. Not even close. As the table below indicates, dependence on oil from the Persian Gulf represents barely 10 percent of total domestic oil consumption, and most of that oil comes from Saudi Arabia and Iraq.

Ah...So you calling anyone who charged that the US is in Iraq, or in effect murdered 2800 of our own citizens to justify a war in Iraq for oil, is gullible. Thanks for acknowledging that.

Why spread the risk?
This was an operation in the continental US, not the Middle East.

But the result ends in the ME with the US in even more control of ME oil, as I proposed that we should have attacked Saudi Arabia since we framed 19 Saudis for 9/11. Remember...According to the muslims, the Jews are everywhere, from the media to the bedrooms if we are to believe the muslims. Avoiding the Mossad regarding 9/11 is well nigh impossible. Might as well have the Mossad help US. It is funny that the Mossad is so good that their agents could smuggle and install tons of explosives to bring down three towers with no one the wiser but are so utterly incompetent that they remain in the area and danced with joy as the towers collapse. There seems to be no logic to the muslim mind on this subject.

 

[Developereo]

Cannot divorce the two.

The mechanics of 9/11 are distinct from its rationale.

Ah...So you calling anyone who charged that the US is in Iraq, or in effect murdered 2800 of our own citizens to justify a war in Iraq for oil, is gullible. Thanks for acknowledging that.

As stated, I never believed that the Iraq war was for oil. Iraq would have been invaded with or without 9/11.

Wolfowitz Admits Iraq War Planned Two Days After 9-11, Jason Leopold

Incidentally, this whole "Iraq war for oil" nonsense is another perfect example of disinformation. It has deflected attention away from the real neocon agenda in the region.

muslims muslims

Your descent into the usual rant about Muslims serves as acknowledgement that you have no rebuttal.

 

[gambit]

The mechanics of 9/11 are distinct from its rationale.

True...But the mechanics of 9/11 hint at the who, as in capable of performing, of 9/11, which in turn lead us into the rationale. As someone who does fly commercial occassionally and as someone who actually served in a military, I cannot help but speculate and in effect put myself into the 'shoes' of a terrorist intending to do harm. The mechanics of 9/11 involve NO ONE who needs intensive 'secret agent man' training usually provided by spooky three-lettered governmental agencies. Everything needed to select a target can be performed by an ordinary traveler, thanks to our open society. This fact and truth then widen up the field as to who is capable of hijacking an airliner.

As stated, I never believed that the Iraq war was for oil. Iraq would have been invaded with or without 9/11.

Wolfowitz Admits Iraq War Planned Two Days After 9-11, Jason Leopold

I highly doubt that you actually read the original article in that source...

Q: And then in the next few days, then there was the statement which now looks remarkably [prescient] when you said this is a campaign. At that point, I think it was the 13th, at that point was Iraq sort of moving into the scope, under the radar screen? What was your thinking at that point?

Wolfowitz: I know my thinking at that point was that the old approach to terrorism was not acceptable any longer. The old approach being you treat it as a law enforcement problem rather than a national security problem. You pursue terrorists after they've done things and bring them to justice, and to the extent states are perhaps involved, you retaliate against them but you don't really expect to get them out of the business of supporting terrorism completely.

To me what September 11th meant was that we just couldn't live with terrorism any longer.

Throughout the '80s and '90s it was sort of, I've never found quite the right words because necessary evil doesn't describe it, but a sort of an evil that you could manage but you couldn't eliminate. And I think what September 11th to me said was this is just the beginning of what these bastards can do if they start getting access to so-called modern weapons, and that it's not something you can live with any longer. So there needs to be a campaign, a strategy, a long-term effort, to root out these networks and to get governments out of the business of supporting them. But that wasn't something that was going to happen overnight.

Q: Right. So Iraq naturally came to the top of the list because of its history and the weapons of mass terror and all the rest, is that right?

Wolfowitz: Yes, plus the fact which seems to go unremarked in most places, that Saddam Hussein was the only international figure other than Osama bin Laden who praised the attacks of September 11th.

The reality is that we have plans for as much scenarios that we can create, including the ones we hired Hollywood to do for us. We have plans to invade Soviet Russia, which now no longer applicable. We even have plans for alien invasion. So what ol' Wolfie was talking about was that past plans for the ME, and that included on what to do with Iraq, dusted off, injected with new facts and presented to the President. So in speaking of gullibility, may be you are not so gullible like many who believe that Iraq was about oil, but you are gullible in believing that invading Iraq was inevitable.

Your descent into the usual rant about Muslims serves as acknowledgement that you have no rebuttal.

No need for any. It was only an observation of that mindset.

 

[Developereo]

True...But the mechanics of 9/11 hint at the who, as in capable of performing, of 9/11, which in turn lead us into the rationale. As someone who does fly commercial occassionally and as someone who actually served in a military, I cannot help but speculate and in effect put myself into the 'shoes' of a terrorist intending to do harm. The mechanics of 9/11 involve NO ONE who needs intensive 'secret agent man' training usually provided by spooky three-lettered governmental agencies. Everything needed to select a target can be performed by an ordinary traveler, thanks to our open society. This fact and truth then widen up the field as to who is capable of hijacking an airliner.

Once again, an irrelevant straw man argument. The mechanics of who piloted what are completely irrelevant to the question of who masterminded and facilitated the operation.

I highly doubt that you actually read the original article in that source...

On the contrary.

The reality is that we have plans for as much scenarios that we can create, including the ones we hired Hollywood to do for us. We have plans to invade Soviet Russia, which now no longer applicable. We even have plans for alien invasion. So what ol' Wolfie was talking about was that past plans for the ME, and that included on what to do with Iraq, dusted off, injected with new facts and presented to the President. So in speaking of gullibility, may be you are not so gullible like many who believe that Iraq was about oil, but you are gullible in believing that invading Iraq was inevitable.

Precisely. 9/11 was a pretext to put into action existing plans. A pretext engineered to put into action those, and other, plans.

No need for any. It was only an observation of that mindset.

No, it was an emotional off-topic rant.