Why The S-400 Is A More Formidable Threat To US Arms Industry Than You Think

[Bengal71]

And yet the mighty USA threatens everyone desiring to purchase it.

Maybe because the US wants to curb Russian arms export as much as possible. It's not only the SAM, they were warning Egypt for buying Su-35 also.

I am just making a point that the S-400 is not proven is any war yet. American SAMs specially the Patriot is war tested. The Saudis are using it to shoot down ballistic missiles regularly with success.

 

[Verve]

Maybe because the US wants to curb Russian arms export as much as possible. It's not only the SAM, they were warning Egypt for buying Su-35 also.

I am just making a point that the S-400 is not proven is any war yet. American SAMs specially the Patriot is war tested. The Saudis are using it to shoot down ballistic missiles regularly with success.

Russian electronic warfare is very advanced. Not long ago the Russian jet fly by disabled all the electronics of a US warship.

I don't think it is mere stopping of Russian sales.

 

[Bengal71]

Russian electronic warfare is very advanced. Not long ago the Russian jet fly by disabled all the electronics of a US warship.

I don't think it is mere stopping of Russian sales.

I think you are talking about the incident in the Black sea against a US warship? That was Russian claim.

 

[waz]

They didn’t do well in Syria, pinch of salt to be taken here...

 

[Wa Muhammada]

What has that got to do with anything. Your posts don't make any sense.



It can't be possible. The Americans spend many tens of billions in R&D, the bests minds in the world work for them, it simply is not possible that the Russians will spend minuscule amount on R&D but will come up with an equal or better system.

This is where Muslim countries have to ‘shop’ around and even insist on knowledge transfer/joint production... like Turkey & KSA are doing. If we become reliant on one supplier like Pakistan did before with the US, that spells trouble

 

[925boy]

S-400 is not really proved in a battlefield.

But western countries are already afraid to face it so what does that tell you???

You are a step behind.

Russians make big claims about their weapon systems but don't really deliver. As of now, the US and European systems are best. China I believe is at par with Russia and will soon surpass them.

Issue her is not Russian weapons, because if it was, then please explain why so many countries keep buying their weapons????? The main issue is your misunderstanding of Russia nweapons or you are in denial.

 

[Bengal71]

But western countries are already afraid to face it so what does that tell you???

You are a step behind.


Issue her is not Russian weapons, because if it was, then please explain why so many countries keep buying their weapons????? The main issue is your misunderstanding of Russia nweapons or you are in denial.

Many countries buy them because of cheaper prices and many have issues with western countries. Russian weapons can't be as good as American weapons simply because the amount of R&D dollars that go in American defense firms.

 

[gambit]

Issue her is not Russian weapons, because if it was, then please explain why so many countries keep buying their weapons????? The main issue is your misunderstanding of Russia nweapons or you are in denial.

How many countries MUST import their defense? And if you MUST import their defense, your options are severely limited:

- Ideology
- Politics (includes geopolitics)
- Budget

There are only two major weapons manufacturing countries in the world: US and Russia. What choice do you have based upon what you are above?

If one weapon system is inferior to the other in many (not all) crucial areas, what other choice do you have, really?

 

[925boy]

Many countries buy them because of cheaper prices

So you're saying that for their cheaper prices, Russian weapons are a good deal? I agree, but you didnt even state this in your initia post.

Russian weapons can't be as good as American weapons simply because the amount of R&D dollars that go in American defense firms.

This logic that Since Russia doesnt invest as much in R&D, their weapons are worse ,is logically faulty. As a matter of fact, Russia's weapons manufacturing legacy is all about making good weapons at considerably cheaper prices than America's, so in reality, i could argue that dollar for dollar, Russian weapons are better, but America has more to waste? probably not true but just saying that because US spends more on R&D that doesnt guarantee they make better weapons (in every weapons class) than Russia. Also , i believe Russian weapons are very good on their own but once you add other factors like receiving country, receiving country's maintenance and training level, its easy for Russian weapons to not look good because its not about the weapon, its about the operator. China has Russia weapons, and if u F around, you know you'll get spanked well by "Russian weapons".

 

[nahtanbob]

Russians had focused on SAMs and SSNs during the cold-war and they were actually ahead of the US by the end of the cold war. The Akula-2 SSN was superior to the improved USN Los Angeles class SSN in 1990.
After the end of the cold way, they spent their meagre resources on nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, SAMs and SSNs and so were able to at least in these areas keep their tech competitive. Look at how bad their attempts at creating a fighter jet on the cheap(SU-57) turned out that the Russian air force does not even want it!

The issue with the S-400 in Syria is that the Russians do not want to start a full-on war by shooting down Jewish and US aircraft that are not in Syrian airspace, and anyway it is forcing them to fire cruise missiles and bombs from long range(more than 100 km away). The days of roaming over Syrian airspace at will is long gone.

Explain how Russia can make effective electronic warfare equipment
Do you realize how far behind Russia is in semiconductor technology ?

 

[UKBengali]

Explain how Russia can make effective electronic warfare equipment
Do you realize how far behind Russia is in semiconductor technology ?

Yes that is a good point.


Russia is using semiconductors from the Chinese since they have been banned from Western sources. They have a very good heritage in SAM systems and are still making the best SAMs on the planet right now - S-500 that is in testing will be an absolute beast.

 

[nahtanbob]

Yes that is a good point.


Russia is using semiconductors from the Chinese since they have been banned from Western sources. They have a very good heritage in SAM systems and are still making the best SAMs on the planet right now - S-500 that is in testing will be an absolute beast.

it does not matter how good the rockets are, how good the materials are. they are vulnerable in electronic warfare.

that applies to all facets of defense electronics - radars, avionics, air defense, anti-submarine warfare, tactical communications etc.

 

[azbaroj]

u.s electronic and cyber weapons are high threat to russian sams and in Syria russian s400 and s300 performed badly against israeli jamming capabilities and are blinded by israel

In Syria all Israeli attack was mainly targeting Iranians and Syrians positions Prior to the permission and will of Russians, to drive away and limiting Iranian influence and Russian S 400 was switched off during Israeli attack and Syrian S 300 PMU2 is till operated by Russians . And in all cases Israel inform Russia at least before 30 minutes prior to operation. So it does not prove Russian SAM systems performing bad in Syria. Can you remember a 1960s S 200 kill an Israeli F 16 ?

 

[DavidSling]

In Syria all Israeli attack was mainly targeting Iranians and Syrians positions Prior to the permission and will of Russians, to drive away and limiting Iranian influence and Russian S 400 was switched off during Israeli attack and Syrian S 300 PMU2 is till operated by Russians . And in all cases Israel inform Russia at least before 30 minutes prior to operation. So it does not prove Russian SAM systems performing bad in Syria. Can you remember a 1960s S 200 kill an Israeli F 16 ?

Shooting one F16 in 5 years, in which hundreds if not thousands of operations in Syria occured.
And also numerous Russian and Chinese weapons are in Syrian hands and yet fail to intercept.
Moreover, the F16 interception occured because of a pilot error.

 

[azbaroj]

Shooting one F16 in 5 years, in which hundreds if not thousands of operations in Syria occured.
And also numerous Russian and Chinese weapons are in Syrian hands and yet fail to intercept.
Moreover, the F16 interception occured because of a pilot error.

Shooting with 60s S 200 , can you imagine, 80 years old system. If Syrians had S 300 or S 400 , then we could see how it performs. Please don't hesitate to give credit to Syrians When they gunned down an F 16 , you invent ' prior to pilots error ' , and when an F35 hit by an Rusty missile , you give an explanation that it was hit by a bird .