Why the hell is Pakistan not utilizing cyber warfare?

[Aspen]

Does Pakistan even have a cyber warfare doctrine and if so, what is it?

 

[Samurai_assassin]

Does Pakistan even have a cyber warfare doctrine and if so, what is it?

Relating to media war, All I ever see is the Indian narrative. Pakistan is further back on all fronts to challange them.

 

[Aspen]

Relating to media war, All I ever see is the Indian narrative. Pakistan is further back on all fronts to challange them.

I am specifically not talking about media/propaganda war.

I am talking about actual cyber warfare like hacking and crippling sensitive IT systems, stealing technical designs of enemy weapons, disrupting financial transactions, planting backdoors in companies, devastating cyber attacks on critical infrastructure.

 

[Old School]

That is only possible after we kick out Trojan horse tech companies from PAKISTAN. Those big tech companies have made PAKISTAN a hostage. An indigenous IT infrastructure is imperative in order to do what you are asking.

 

[Samurai_assassin]

I am specifically not talking about media/propaganda war.

I am talking about actual cyber warfare like hacking sensitive IT systems, stealing technical designs of enemy weapons, disrupting financial transactions, planting backdoors in companies, crippling cyber attacks on critical infrastructure.

I Know I gave you my opinion regarding media. Cyber war they must have some hackers.

 

[Aspen]

That is only possible after we kick out Trojan horse tech companies from PAKISTAN. Those big tech companies have made PAKISTAN a hostage. An indigenous IT infrastructure is imperative in order to do what you are asking.

You don't need a company to make a hacking force. All you need is hackers.

I Know I gave you my opinion regarding media. Cyber war they must have some hackers.

Pakistan has plenty of hackers, its the incompetent gov't under IK that hasn't put together a hacker squad yet.

If ISI is worth anything, their spies in India so should make some malicious USB's and start plugging them into any computers they can find across India. This is like basic crash course to hacking 101, its super easy to do.

Or you could even just drophack a malicious USB on a busy street in Bombay. Maybe a banker or a startup employee walks past and picks it up. They pick up the malicious USB and plug it into their computer, boom ISI is now logging insider financial or technical information about that company.

This is really the minimum they should be doing.

 

[Samurai_assassin]

You don't need a company to make a hacking force. All you need is hackers.



Pakistan has plenty of hackers, its the incompetent gov't under IK that hasn't put together a hacker squad yet.

Rafy Baloch is an expert ethical hacker. PM IK too busy feeding poor Afghans he has no time for these urgent security measures.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Afsari chalao. Tenure poora kato. Progress. New ideas jain bhaar mein.

 

[Aspen]

Rafy Baloch is an expert ethical hacker. PM IK too busy feeding poor Afghans he has no time for these urgent security measures.

Ethics and hacking do not go together

Afsari chalao. Tenure poora kato. Progress. New ideas jain bhaar mein.

Pakistan needs new, radical, sophisticated ways to solve problems.

Cyber warfare is one of those ways.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

I know I'm talking about your typical afsar sahb sitting in A/C room, twiddling his thumbs while the country falls deeper into despair and disparity.

Ethics and hacking do not go together



Pakistan needs new, radical, sophisticated ways to solve problems.

Cyber warfare is one of those ways.

 

[Aspen]

I know I'm talking about your typical afsar sahb sitting in A/C room, twiddling his thumbs while the country falls deeper into despair and disparity.

What is it going to take for Imran Khan to realize that instead of ISPR tweeting about Indian atrocities, it will be more effective to conduct a devastating cyber attack crippling Indian infrastructure every time India fires across LOC and hits civilians?

Pakistan should hack and open the gates of an Indian dam or cripple their water filtration plants in a SCADA cyberattack the next time they conduct a strike on Pakistan.

 

[R Wing]

Does Pakistan even have a cyber warfare doctrine and if so, what is it?

Multiple working groups at GHQ have been drawing up plans for a cyber command of sorts.

I am specifically not talking about media/propaganda war.

I am talking about actual cyber warfare like hacking and crippling sensitive IT systems, stealing technical designs of enemy weapons, disrupting financial transactions, planting backdoors in companies, devastating cyber attacks on critical infrastructure.

Offensive cyber capabilities are often utilized. Devastating cyber attacks are generally considered acts of war --- you don't go around doing that unless you can deal with the response. How would you rate the cyber defenses of our own critical infrastructure given that the reprisal attack will be from a better-resourced/funded enemy (India)?

To be clear, I'm not excusing the govt's lax attitude --- the problems are much deeper and beyond the scope of this thread; they are societal and structural, and they're going to take decades to fix IF we even get a leader capable of fixing them.

You don't need a company to make a hacking force. All you need is hackers.



Pakistan has plenty of hackers, its the incompetent gov't under IK that hasn't put together a hacker squad yet.

If ISI is worth anything, their spies in India so should make some malicious USB's and start plugging them into any computers they can find across India. This is like basic crash course to hacking 101, its super easy to do.

Or you could even just drophack a malicious USB on a busy street in Bombay. Maybe a banker or a startup employee walks past and picks it up. They pick up the malicious USB and plug it into their computer, boom ISI is now logging insider financial or technical information about that company.

This is really the minimum they should be doing.

At the higher limit, the ISI is worth whatever directive, freedom and resources you give it to achieve a task.
At the lower end, the ISI is worth the petty politics, internal bureaucratic struggles and officers of questionable intellect that plague all institutions.

Rest assured, everything you've mentioned is not just being explored but has successfully been deployed multiple times. The ISI has a dedicated SIGINT wing which often naturally gets the additional responsibility of small-scale cyber warfare --- but many other units also take part.

Ethics and hacking do not go together



Pakistan needs new, radical, sophisticated ways to solve problems.

Cyber warfare is one of those ways.

I feel for you. Your enthusiasm and passion is evident --- and soon it will be blunted by the painful realities of Pakistan's gigantic bureaucracies, whether civ or mil. What Pakistan "should" do is abundantly clear to you, me and many others on this forum --- but our leaders have interests beyond just what's best for the country.

What is it going to take for Imran Khan to realize that instead of ISPR tweeting about Indian atrocities, it will be more effective to conduct a devastating cyber attack crippling Indian infrastructure every time India fires across LOC and hits civilians?

Pakistan should hack and open the gates of an Indian dam or cripple their water filtration plants in a SCADA cyberattack the next time they conduct a strike on Pakistan.

All these doctrinal questions have been discussed for almost 5 years now at the appropriate forums. The various types of moves (remote tailored access, SCADA attacks, zero day exploits, etc.) are largely irrelevant when the political and military will simply doesn't exist to escalate things with India or to create a "New Normal" that puts them in a tough spot. Long ago, we accepted our defensive posture, using a myriad of excuses to justify it (internal threats/substate violence, weak economy, questionable politicians, etc etc etc.)

GHQ's current idea of deterrence is strange, twisted and will likely cost us dearly. One just has to see our "amazing" (as the fanboys would have you believe) achievements regarding IOK. You'll get the Docile Duo's fanboys defending their inaction by using the "weak economy" card --- that's utter BS, because it was used during our nuclear program too (Fin. Minister Sartaj Aziz forcefully opposed our planned tests at Chagai in a critical meeting based on the potential of sanctions, a slowing economy, etc.) but, thankfully, Pakistan went ahead with its nuclear tests. Today, I am the proud owner of a Chagai Medal (not awarded to me) because it is a reminder of the right priorities at the right time --- something we haven't had for decades now.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask.

 

[sparten]

Mods can we please ban the hormonal teenager and uncles with mid-life crises from these discussions?
FWIW Pakistan is believed to have immense capabilities in this domain.
For obvious reasons, the exact scope of these are kept pretty confidential, even if that cuts down on discussions on defence forums.
@RiazHaq wrote about it some time ago.

 

[Metal 0-1]

We need something like this.

Group of Turkish Hackers. They have love for Islam and Pakistan. They hacked some Anti Pakistan Indian celebrities social media account.

https://www.instagram.com/ayyildiztim.com.tr/
https://www.instagram.com/ayyildiztim.army/

On side note: If you see any Anti-Islam and Blasphemy activity online inform these guys.

 

[R Wing]

Mods can we please ban the hormonal teenager and uncles with mid-life crises from these discussions?
FWIW Pakistan is believed to have immense capabilities in this domain.
For obvious reasons, the exact scope of these are kept pretty confidential, even if that cuts down on discussions on defence forums.
@RiazHaq wrote about it some time ago.

A mature member! It cannot be!