What's new

Why small nuclear powers will not disarm?

He only toes the 'standard' American policy line............ In my personal view, he writes some of the most useless and pointless posts here on PDF, nothing to tinkle our collective imagination or nothing that we haven't heard since the last three decades from US Foreign Office. If, somehow, tomorrow, the US State Department were to declare that Martians were our best friends, he'd be the first one to jump on that bandwagon, too.

He is what he is. A tool, a mouthpiece if you will.

I share your thoughts exactly. :tup:
 
What a load of bull, your own ex-ISI cheif went on record and accepted Pakistan's use of militants in Kashmir against India. And Why would India follow UN, when for the plebiscite to happen Pakistan must remove all its forces from the occupied area. And more over, the Shimla agreement trumps the UN agreement, since Pakistan agreed to no external parties involvement in matter regarding Kashmir. More over, why would be talk with a country's leader that has no control over any of it's country external issues, and is barely hanging to power.

As for military spending India only spends 2% of its GDP on its military which is lower than Pakistan so spare us the holier than thou attitude. It was Pakistan which proliferated the nuclear tech. to NK, so spare us the concern of nukes. And last time I checked OBL was also found living walking distance from your military equivalent of west point.

With both countries having credible nuclear deterrents, it is quite logical that the adversarial relationship looks to other means of furthering respective national interests such as the use of proxies and economic warfare.
 
Good.

Hopefully Turkey starts producing its own high-tech/effective fighter jets, tanks, submarines, ships, and missiles etc too. A powerful Turkish ballistic missile force will boost Turkish conventional standing in the region..alot.

Of course..thats what projects such as Gezgin and J-600T Yıldırım III are for.


What capabilities TAF has that, if it comes to it, will keep Russia, or Israel at bay?

Israel? Are you kidding mate..they don't have that guts. In case Russia comes in Turkey, they'll be beaten by the navy and air force even before the allies arrive.

What happened with TFX though? Never heard about the program again..

Just like the 4th gen tank Altay, it's going good as well check its thread in trmilitary if you know Turkish. Those projects are top notch technology with dozens of security sertificates required. Unlike Thunder (looking forward to Block II), TF-X is a 5th generation fighter, so expect some time. How many countries do have their own 5th gen program?



Nuclear weapons are built to avoid the conflict.

You can't become a nuclear-armed nation after the conflict has already started. It takes decades of development, testing, preparation of missile forces for effective delivery of weapons, testing of ballistic missiles, formation of nuclear doctrine etc. etc.

Ever heard of wartime defence industry. Ex: Nazi Germany.

Japan, can generate nukes within a very very short time in case they enter a conflict. That's what we are trying to adopt.



That's the whole point. Turkey doesn't have security guarantee of its own. It relies on the security guarantee of others (U.S alliance/NATO). History has shown relying on others.......bla bla

Yes and they will keep doing that until we stand on our own, and after it as well. It is true that we rely on them. But it's the Washington Treaty. They rely on us, we to them. US/NATO has gave more to us then it took. Also dozens of examples have shown for over 60 years that we can rely on the alliance.


What doubts there can be militarily?

Economically, yes. Hopefully we figure out our political crisis. Once that is done...you can bet our economy will do good too.

Structural and industrial reforms, network linking, navy....etc. But hopefully they'll be good.


What makes you think we don't have up-to-date warheads and modern technology?

Not. Have you ever thought to update the warheads or the missiles? AAW is very developed nowadays.

Pakistan and india are completely matched..specially in nuclear forces.

I wish it was..but it's clear that in air,land and sea India wins hands down...as for nukes..agreed.
 
Of course..thats what projects such as Gezgin and J-600T Yıldırım III are for.

Gezgin isn't a ballistic missile.

Your other missile whatever its name is---is from stone-ages. A "ballistic missile" with 900km range doesn't amount to much..specially when it is not even nuclear.

Turkey needs a ballistic missile program with ballistic missiles of 2500km range atleast.

Hopefully, Pakistan will be able to help Turkey in this regard.


In case Russia comes in Turkey, they'll be beaten by the navy and air force even before the allies arrive.

lol...how come?

Russian military is massive compared to Turkey's.

A credible nuclear deterrence will keep Russia at bay in the long run...

Just like the 4th gen tank Altay, it's going good as well check its thread in trmilitary if you know Turkish. Those projects are top notch technology with dozens of security sertificates required. Unlike Thunder (looking forward to Block II), TF-X is a 5th generation fighter, so expect some time. How many countries do have their own 5th gen program?

Dude...

I asked you because as far as I know, even the design is not finalized as of yet..because last time, Erdogan ji canceled the meeting.

Or Turkey has finalized the design and work has begun on the project?


Ever heard of wartime defence industry. Ex: Nazi Germany.

Wartime defense industry doesn't make you a nuclear power over night...It takes years!



Yes and they will keep doing that until we stand on our own, and after it as well. It is true that we rely on them. But it's the Washington Treaty. They rely on us, we to them. US/NATO has gave more to us then it took. Also dozens of examples have shown for over 60 years that we can rely on the alliance.

Hopefully, Turkey will be able to stand on its own soon...rather than relying on others.


Not. Have you ever thought to update the warheads or the missiles? AAW is very developed nowadays.

Missiles and warheads of Pakistan are being continuously updated. Unlike others, we are in the league of big boys. We are a nuclear power with thousands of experts working in the field. We do know how to keep our systems up to date.

For example, Pakistan tested a missile from Shaheen series (which Pakistan already deploys)..and the missile was called Shaheen-1A.

When the pictures came..experts analyzed the Pakistan has massive upgraded its Shaheen 1 missile and hence designation A was added.

That's just one example..

New developments are always going on...


I wish it was..but it's clear that in air,land and sea India wins hands down...as for nukes..agreed.

india wins? LOL.

india is bigger...and that's it. It doesn't have "decisive" conventional advantage that is required by an invading power to "win" the war.

Its basic military knowledge. An invading army must have an over-all advantage of 3 to 1 (either in numbers, technology, geography and so on)...indians aren't even close to this mark.

The ratio of strike squadrons of india and Pakistan is 1.6 to 1

Same goes for Land Forces...Both nations have almost same number of tanks, armored forces and so on...Not even close to the mark of 3:1

Yes, in navy, india has near 3:1 ratio...

Anyways, we are nuclear power. indians will evaporate in air before they take our capital. And hence they can NEVER defeat us.

Can't say that if Russia invades Turkey and no NATO help arrives.
 
Gezgin isn't a ballistic missile.

Your other missile whatever its name is---is from stone-ages. A "ballistic missile" with 900km range doesn't amount to much..specially when it is not even nuclear.

Turkey needs a ballistic missile program with ballistic missiles of 2500km range atleast.

Hopefully, Pakistan will be able to help Turkey in this regard.




lol...how come?

Russian military is massive compared to Turkey's.

A credible nuclear deterrence will keep Russia at bay in the long run...



Dude...

I asked you because as far as I know, even the design is not finalized as of yet..because last time, Erdogan ji canceled the meeting.

Or Turkey has finalized the design and work has begun on the project?




Wartime defense industry doesn't make you a nuclear power over night...It takes years!





Hopefully, Turkey will be able to stand on its own soon...rather than relying on others.




Missiles and warheads of Pakistan are being continuously updated. Unlike others, we are in the league of big boys. We are a nuclear power with thousands of experts working in the field. We do know how to keep our systems up to date.

For example, Pakistan tested a missile from Shaheen series (which Pakistan already deploys)..and the missile was called Shaheen-1A.

When the pictures came..experts analyzed the Pakistan has massive upgraded its Shaheen 1 missile and hence designation A was added.

That's just one example..

New developments are always going on...




india wins? LOL.

india is bigger...and that's it. It doesn't have "decisive" conventional advantage that is required by an invading power to "win" the war.

Its basic military knowledge. An invading army must have an over-all advantage of 3 to 1 (either in numbers, technology, geography and so on)...indians aren't even close to this mark.

The ratio of strike squadrons of india and Pakistan is 1.6 to 1

Same goes for Land Forces...Both nations have almost same number of tanks, armored forces and so on...Not even close to the mark of 3:1

Yes, in navy, india has near 3:1 ratio...

Anyways, we are nuclear power. indians will evaporate in air before they take our capital. And hence they can NEVER defeat us.

Can't say that if Russia invades Turkey and no NATO help arrives.

Ninty percent of what you said is wrong...including the designs of TF-X and Yıldırım. .dont be lazy. Your answer is at Turkish section and trmilitary. .you kidding, look at current situation then you'll see how NATO helps..dont be hurt bcz of UBL raid or the post attack.

And get over with it..India is more powerful and decisively won at arms race.
 
Moreover, it has not fulfilled its own international commitments to the United Nations and international community to hold a plebiscite, giving the right of self-determination to the millions of people of Kashmir, a beautiful region bordering Pakistan, India and China, which New Delhi continues to militarily occupy since 1948.
Huh? So the territory occupied by Pakistan in Pak Administered Kashmir, is not militarily occupied by Pakistan? Is only Indian Kashmir 'occupied' meaning it belongs to Pakistan? Jeeez!

Extract from the UN resolution says:

A - RESTORATION OF PEACE AND ORDER

The Government of Pakistan should undertake:

To secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistani nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purposes of fighting, and to prevent any intrusion into the State of such elements and any furnishing of material aid to those fighting in the State.

It's obvious this Pakistani journalist was smoking low grade weed when he wrote this crap.

Nuff said. I stopped reading after this garbage.
 
Huh? So the territory occupied by Pakistan in Pak Administered Kashmir, is not militarily occupied by Pakistan? Is only Indian Kashmir 'occupied' meaning it belongs to Pakistan? Jeeez!

Extract from the UN resolution says:

A - RESTORATION OF PEACE AND ORDER

The Government of Pakistan should undertake:

To secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistani nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purposes of fighting, and to prevent any intrusion into the State of such elements and any furnishing of material aid to those fighting in the State.

It's obvious this Pakistani journalist was smoking low grade weed when he wrote this crap.

Nuff said. I stopped reading after this garbage.

But they wont do it.

Pakistani members are quick to call Indian adminitered Kashmir as ocupied, but when shown facts, dont reply.
 
But they wont do it.

Pakistani members are quick to call Indian adminitered Kashmir as ocupied, but when shown facts, dont reply.

In any case, both India and Pakistan now have to resolve the Kashmir issue and all other issues bilaterally after the Simla Agreement. Third party mediation by the UN or anyone else is possible only if they both agree on it.
 
In any case, both India and Pakistan now have to resolve the Kashmir issue and all other issues bilaterally after the Simla Agreement. Third party mediation by the UN or anyone else is possible only if they both agree on it.
Wow! That was a sensible post from a Pakistani. A far cry from the drivel spewed out by many out here! :tup:
 
In any case, both India and Pakistan now have to resolve the Kashmir issue and all other issues bilaterally after the Simla Agreement. Third party mediation by the UN or anyone else is possible only if they both agree on it.

Exactly.

I dont know why paksiani (many) members forget this.
 
Nuclear weapon can't guarantee Peace in Long term. Kargil war is example.. Nuclear weapon is threat for peace. We should disable nuclear weapon otherwise nuclear war is possible in this decade.
 
Nuclear weapons are a massive deterrent. ( note i say deterrent). the entire point of being nuclear capable is not to deatroy every capital of every country in the world but to inflate ones chest and use scare tactics claiming if you cross our borders then we will destroy you. I personally believe all forms of city destroying capabilities are massive deterrents and are very integral for international politics and are perhaps a very sound defense for your country as a non-nuclear nation will never attack you and a nuclear nation will avoid conflict.
The greatest example is kargil where the entire world community tried to deflate the tensions and made sure the war wont escalate. One can also use the example of the arms race between russia and america. The cold war where both sides would have invaded each other had the fear of the rivals nuclear stock pile didnt keep them back.

Although in pursuit of nuclear weapons one cannot forget the economy and other military aspects of the country as a nuclear armed warhead is not very effective if it doesnt have a good range launch system and greater payload capacity.
Economy is also a massive factor and is required for being a nuclear country. The country must be able to keep its economic condition set as it may save itself from external threat but not from internal threat.
One can once more give the example of Russia which couldnt be attacked externally but was still broken due to internal economic strife thanks to the world sanctions that were placed on it. Over 10,000 nuclear bombs and the capacity of Tsar Bomba was not able to stop the destruction of soviet union.

A country must juggle its economic condition whilst reaching for nuclear capability. If iraq becomes nuclear tomorrow then it will be useless as its internal strife will not be aided at all and same goes for syria however if turkey becomes nuclear tomorrow then it can easily juggle the costs of keeping nuclear bombs thanks to its strong economy.

In Pakistan case the need for nuclear bomb was very big as our enemy india had them and we without those nuclear bombs couldnt keep india back. We needed nuclear bombs for our survival. Although it took a toll on pakistan but pakistan quite frankly has been able to juggle nuclear bombs and economy even with the destruction the terrorists inflicted on us. With terrorism kept down i am sure pakistan will have economic growth and with it nuclear and military growth.

Quite frankly i honestly dont see a russia-esque situation for pakistan. I truly dont.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 2, Members: 0, Guests: 2)


Back
Top Bottom