Why pakistan and india are fighting over kashmir?

[Armstrong]

I am merely suggesting that we are losing legitimacy and relevance in the Kashmir issue, our theatrics can only keep up afloat for so much longer before our position is completely overtaken by the pro-Freedom camp and then we will have not one, but two parties to contend with for the Kashmir issue.
As for your sentiments about born Pakistani, that is something that the average Kashmiri in J&K can not relate to, he has never lived life as a Pakistani and relies on what he hears from others that construct his ideas about Pakistan. Previously it was words like sanctuary, progress, strong. These days they are terrorism, blasts, lynching, inflation.
Its not difficult to see why the proverbial young Kashmiri with a hidden Pakistani flag stashed under his bed will one day feel that the flag is losing its appeal and look for another.

Yaar Butt Sahab last para main toh aap senti hogaye, academic debate hai yaar dil pay toh na lay

As long as the camp isn't Pro-India its alright because even an independent Kashmir would be to Pakistan what Luxembourg is to Germany. So lets just wait and see....if our position becomes untenable and we grow some neurons we can probably throw in 'independence' as one of the options as a show of magnanimity, after deliberating the pros and cons of this options for us, inexhaustively of course.

Besides its not as if Pakistan's present woes are here to stay ad infinitum; you forget only till 5-10 years ago we were galloping forward on every single economic and social indicator out there. That the Asian tiger we had so often heard about was finally coming of age. So there are bad patches and there are good patches.....the previous 5 years were a tremendously bad patch...the effects of it will subside. Even now efforts are being made to usher us into that direction. Just look at Afghanistan; Karzai is gone and Ghani is neither an American stooge nor is he falling head over heels for the Indians.....hes a level-headed Afghan Nationalist who is reaching out to Pakistan and Pakistan is reaching back to him...give it 2-3 decades and our relationship with Afghanistan will be iron-tight and the rivalries of old will simply wither away if we continue to take our relationship on this trajectory.

On the other hand the Government seems to be sobering up a bit too; it will never have it as good as Musharraf did at the helm but more privatization, more devolution to the provinces, intelligence led operations being at a surprisingly high frequency (whats the figure the DG ISPR quoted again ? It was in the thousands), efforts being made to increase Pakistan's trading volume, the kind of resilience shown by Pakistan's existing manufacturers and an increasing clarity amongst the people on the reality of these terrorist outfits as our mortal enemies and not our misguided brethren ensures that the future isn't nearly as bleak as PPP's past 5 years were.

So cheer up !

Aur bhai senti tou karnaa haiii naaa......!

 

[Bornubus]

Troll mode on :

What is paKSitan ideology and which wards are we talking about exactly?
Troll mode off.

Oh, shoot, Troll mode right back on :

Why India and Pakistan …
Because the region is secretly rich : just make it a separate state,
have it base its economy on sweaters and hashish then open huge
casinos all over the place to lure in tourists from all over the world,
thereby making it the Switzerland/Monaco/Indian reservation ( US meaning )
of western Asia and a buffer to Pak_Bharat animosity where China's
rich folks will come and spend their hard earned US dollars gladly.

Voilà, problem solved and peace on Earth …
Troll mode finally off.

Oooooooops, I did it again! Tay.

More than that Kashmir valley which some calls Jugular Veins ---- is a resource Rich region ---- India didn't exploited it fully especially ----Hydro electricity

 

[Taygibay]

I know @Bornubus … it was implied in secretly rich but really,
you shouldn't take joking answers so seriously, mate! Tay.

 

[Bornubus]

I know @Bornubus … it was implied in secretly rich but really,
you shouldn't take joking answers so seriously, mate! Tay.

No i liked your idea ---- in fact Kashmir was imp tourist destination before Terrorist abducted and executed some western tourist.

But things have been changing---- insurgency is almost Dead Buried under the Boots of Army.

Foreign tourists already started to visit Kashmir but not like same volume as Goa ,Kerala,Rajasthan and Himachal etc

 

[SecularNationalist]

68 Yrs have passed , and you guys still harp about Kashmir. lets be honest , you cant afford to maintain her. Infrastructure in your country is bad without adding another province. You guys are struggling to get a bus(called metro) project off the ground,
also the dispute can only be about the valley then (if one is to take your argument about Muslim majority)the rest does not have a Muslim majority.

Do refute me with facts and not rhetoric ,

IMHO turn the LOC into the IB is the best alternative towards this disagreement.

I respect you for being a rational indian member on PDF but this post of yours is considered trolling.
We can afford to maintain it better than india since our poverty levels are far lower than india.Also there will be no further violence over there because unlike you we will try not try to make them indians using force.You have been using rape and genocide as way to suppress the freedom cause and see the cause is greater than ever.
You don,t have basic necessities of life like toilets and you are criticizing our infra structure?

 

[haviZsultan]

@Icarus @Armstrong

I believe what we are seeing is a major divergence of opinion in the 2 Kashmirs. In Azad Kashmir the people mostly want merger with Pakistan. You can confirm this by talking to Armstrong, Waz and other Kashmiris. They want a Kashmir merged with Pakistan-all of it. There are only some Kashmiri nationalists on our side seeking independence. We have 3 million people in our side of Kashmir, not all of them ethnic Kashmiri. India has 7 million.

Anyway when on one hand Kashmiris of Pakistan want merger of Kashmir with Pakistan on the other hand Kashmiris of Indian occupied Kashmir demand independence with a minority wanting merger with Pakistan. As a Lucknowi who has seen some patriotic Muslim Indians along with of course anti Indians I say they should have been Indianized like the rest of the country much earlier. But this is India's failure as it has mistreated the people of IOK.

Now as Icarus said one of the primary things that have played a role in distancing Kashmiris from Pakistan is the interior situation of our country. We can't protect our own people yet are demanding Kashmir. So the solution is to improve our situation and therefore be an attractive escape to kashmiris.

 

[T90TankGuy]

I respect you for being a rational indian member on PDF but this post of yours is considered trolling.
We can afford to maintain it better than india since our poverty levels are far lower than india.Also there will be no further violence over there because unlike you we will try not try to make them indians using force.You have been using rape and genocide as way to suppress the freedom cause and see the cause is greater than ever.
You don,t have basic necessities of life like toilets and you are criticizing our infra structure?

My dear friend , Google how much we spend on Kashmir every year , then talk!! as for not having toilets how does that come into the picture?
lets have a debate on the issues at hand , not some random rhetoric.

To be absolutely candid here, 10 years ago, I would have walked all over you if you had given this line of argument but given the present circumstances, Pakistan's existing problems and the fact that we are already a nation in social, economic and security turmoil, there is no way that we can make a case for Kashmir to cede to us. The dynamics of global politics are also changing and it is in both nation's interests to forge a cordial trade relationship if not a friendly one that can work for the alleviation of poverty in the region, however, backtracking from the claim to Kashmir will hit Pakistan at what has been constructed to be one of the core components of its identity and a weakened nation might not be able to take that blow.
Its thus an interesting paradox, we can't take Kashmir and we also can't stop hoping that we will take it.

I whole-heartedly agree with your statement. One has to look at the ground realities of today and then look for a holistic answer. in my opinion the LOC becoming the IB is the best , but politics will ensure (both sides) that this remains a key mudda.
Sad isint it?

 

[Lord ZeN]

A thought provoking question indeed.
Our western neighbors conveniently forgets about Jammu & Ladhak being dominated by Hindus & Buddhists respectively. All that Pakistanis can call disputed is the region surrounding Srinagar where some Pro-Pakistan sympathizes aka hurriyat agents exists.

 

[Green Arrow]

Well Kashmir is not going anywhere. At this moment, we have some serious challenges which need to be overcome. So it is better for us if we keep our head down and start cleaning the mess which we are entrapped in.

 

[DIRECT ACTION]

See because of the historical facts of kashmir and the desire of the muslim population of kashmir to join pakistan there is no way india deserves a inch of kashmir.Based on the paksitan ideology and the partition after wards kashmir would be part of pakistan.Britishers installed a hindu raja in muslim majority kashmir does not change the facts.I agree everything in this video other than what the said about the human right abuses on both sides.Human right abuses are only in IOK not in azad kashmir. IOK is the main root cause of kashmir conflict.

kashmir wasn't, isn't and won't be a part of pakistan. pakistani don't have any right on kashmir, because pakistan occupied the Azad Kashmir in 1947 military. raja Hari Singh give kashmir to india. pakistan use military force to capture kashmir, so pakistan is occupying force.
before starting a troll thread you must learn about the history of kashmir.
india won't give a single inch of land to pakis, do what ever you can. not matter how hard you pakis try, you won't get a single piece of kashmir form india.

 

[SecularNationalist]

as for not having toilets how does that come into the picture?

Aren,t toilets part of infra structure? Or your definition of infra structure excludes toilets?

kashmir wasn't, isn't and won't be a part of pakistan. pakistani don't have any right on kashmir, because pakistan occupied the Azad Kashmir in 1947 military. raja Hari Singh give kashmir to india. pakistan use military force to capture kashmir, so pakistan is occupying force.
before starting a troll thread you must learn about the history of kashmir.
india won't give a single inch of land to pakis, do what ever you can. not matter how hard you pakis try, you won't get a single piece of kashmir form india

What if i start calling you a indiot or endian? Let,s stop this name calling and act like mature individuals not like some kid showing his patriotism without knowing the facts.

@Icarus @Armstrong

I believe what we are seeing is a major divergence of opinion in the 2 Kashmirs. In Azad Kashmir the people mostly want merger with Pakistan. You can confirm this by talking to Armstrong, Waz and other Kashmiris. They want a Kashmir merged with Pakistan-all of it. There are only some Kashmiri nationalists on our side seeking independence. We have 3 million people in our side of Kashmir, not all of them ethnic Kashmiri. India has 7 million.

Anyway when on one hand Kashmiris of Pakistan want merger of Kashmir with Pakistan on the other hand Kashmiris of Indian occupied Kashmir demand independence with a minority wanting merger with Pakistan. As a Lucknowi who has seen some patriotic Muslim Indians along with of course anti Indians I say they should have been Indianized like the rest of the country much earlier. But this is India's failure as it has mistreated the people of IOK.

Now as Icarus said one of the primary things that have played a role in distancing Kashmiris from Pakistan is the interior situation of our country. We can't protect our own people yet are demanding Kashmir. So the solution is to improve our situation and therefore be an attractive escape to kashmiris.

You are right and i disagree with the posts of those two members .
We are having a bad time but we are no different than any other nation so should we put this kashmir cause to sleep?

Troll mode on :

What is paKSitan ideology and which wards are we talking about exactly?
Troll mode off.

Oh, shoot, Troll mode right back on :

Why India and Pakistan …
Because the region is secretly rich : just make it a separate state,
have it base its economy on sweaters and hashish then open huge
casinos all over the place to lure in tourists from all over the world,
thereby making it the Switzerland/Monaco/Indian reservation ( US meaning )
of western Asia and a buffer to Pak_Bharat animosity where China's
rich folks will come and spend their hard earned US dollars gladly.

Voilà, problem solved and peace on Earth …
Troll mode finally off.

Oooooooops, I did it again! Tay.

Revise some history lessons and you will know our ideology and then compare it with the kashmir cause .
One who call other person troll without engaging himself into a logical debate is a troll indeed.

India didnot believe in 2 nation theory

So what exactly do you believe in ?In rape and genocide of innocent kashmiris?

 

[45'22']

Now,Pakistan is only using Kashmir for its interests
Kashmiris have already started seeing this and are alienating themselves from the Pakistanis with each passing second.....
Kashmir will soon be free from militancy and will witness development


I hope Pakistan ends this drama for the sake of countries of both the people
Someone has to make the call in Pakistan....Will it be IK ???
Let's see

 

[Taygibay]

Revise some history lessons and you will know our ideology and then compare it with the kashmir cause .
One who call other person troll without engaging himself into a logical debate is a troll indeed.

Man, why so rigid? Take that broom out of your … it's making you uptight.
It was a joke! Troll mode means nothing else.
As for the ideology, I think you missed the spelling error I was referring to?

No hard feelings, good day to you nonetheless, Tay.

 

[rubyjackass]

See because of the historical facts of kashmir and the desire of the muslim population of kashmir to join pakistan there is no way india deserves a inch of kashmir.Based on the paksitan ideology and the partition after wards kashmir would be part of pakistan.Britishers installed a hindu raja in muslim majority kashmir does not change the facts.I agree everything in this video other than what the said about the human right abuses on both sides.Human right abuses are only in IOK not in azad kashmir. IOK is the main root cause of kashmir conflict.

With all due respect, there is no legal case for Pakistan in Kashmir whatsoever. India got Kashmir's accession. The UN resolution which Pakistan hangs onto(which is non-binding by the way) has the first measure as Pakistan withdrawing all its forces from all territories of J&K. If you want to say human rights abuses are only in IOK, well then the moon is in my bedroom come I will show it. If Pakistan's ideology claims all muslim lands of subcontinent, Indian ideology of secularism can claim all lands of subcontinent. Ideologies matter nothing in legal terms. May be you are new here. But these issues are discussed to death here already.

 

[DIRECT ACTION]

What if i start calling you a indiot or ******? Let,s stop this name calling and act like mature individuals not like some kid showing his patriotism without knowing the facts.

Hari Singh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kashmir and Jammu (princely state) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maharaja Hari Singh's Letter to Mountbatten

26th October 1947: Maharaja Hari Singh agrees to the accession of Jammu and Kashmir to India