Why India needs to rethink the Rafale deal

[Lostsoldier]

Rafale sucks. Period. Not stealthy. Too slow. Looks ugly.

Well tell me any inducted fighter which is stealthy.Well Chinese j20 is stealthy?? !!! Tell me since when stealth planes have cannards?

 

[SvenSvensonov]

Well tell me any inducted fighter which is stealthy.Well Chinese j20 is stealthy?? !!! Tell me since when stealth planes have cannards?

If done right, canards aren't the stealth-killer they are thought to be. The US X-36 demonstrator successfully showed that a platform with canards can be a stealthy system, the canards just need to be done right. Whether China's J-20 achieves this is still up to speculation, but it can be done.

Both the EF2000 and Rafale have canards and low RCS profiles as well. They are not true stealth platforms, but their canards don't hurt them either. The US B-1B also has canards and it is a largely stealthy platform, again not a true stealth aircraft like the B-2, but it's canards also don't harm its overall RCS.

 

[NKVD]

Light fighter without for and can't even fire bvraam. Jf 17, many other fighters are cheaper and better option. You get a stab at same price tag.

Jf-17 is a substandard fighter with underpower radar ,big RCS under power EW and Lack IRST inducted just after Ioc.it was never fully inducted.Lca is getting a Foc by June next year till date it can fly 1.6 mach taking 3 ton payload with 7.3 g twr with 24 degree AoA.

 

[Lostsoldier]

If done right, canards aren't the stealth-killer they are thought to be. The US X-36 demonstrator successfully showed that a platform with canards can be a stealthy system, the canards just need to be done right. Whether China's J-20 achieves this is still up to speculation, but it can be done.

View attachment 152938

View attachment 152939

Both the EF2000 and Rafale have canards and low RCS profiles as well. They are not true stealth platforms, but their canards don't hurt them either.

Actually j20 has high aoa due to cannards,rcs is reduced by controlling cannard movement, j20 has mature front design and air intakes as it is a rip off copy if f22. The thing is its engine as if now they have high radar signature, no doubt china is working on a new turbofan engine, which will reduce rcs,better thrust and super cruise.Still there are no news of the engine, I was being biased in my previous post but in reality j20 is a mean machine and definitely comparable to f22 if Chinese get its avionic right.

 

[Lostsoldier]

24

Jf-17 is a substandard fighter with underpower radar ,big RCS under power EW and Lack IRST inducted just after Ioc.it was never fully inducted.Lca is getting a Foc by June next year till date it can fly 1.6 mach taking 3 ton payload with 7.3 g twr with 24 degree AoA.

24 aoa is a joke it should be at least 26, no bar aam??
How about the price difference, we don't even have permission from USA and Israel to sell tejas at it has their engine and avionics.

 

[Lostsoldier]

Jf-17 is a substandard fighter with underpower radar ,big RCS under power EW and Lack IRST inducted just after Ioc.it was never fully inducted.

Pakistan negotiated with British and Italian defence firms regarding avionics and radars for the JF-17 development. Radar options include the Italian Galileo Avionica's Grifo S7,[54] the FrenchThomson-CSF's RC400 (a variant of theRDY-2),[55] and the British company SELEX Galileo's Vixen 500E active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.[3] In 2010, the PAF had reportedly selected ATE Aerospace Group to integrate French-built avionics and weapons systems over rival bids from Astrac, Finmeccanica and a Thales-Sagem joint venture. Fifty JF-17s were to be upgraded and an optional fifty from 2013 onwards, at a cost of up toUS$1.36 billion. The RC-400 radar, MICAAAMs, and several air-to-surface weapons are believed to be in the contract. The PAF also held talks with South Africa for the supply of Denel A-darter AAMs.

 

[NKVD]

24

24 aoa is a joke it should be at least 26, no bar aam??
How about the price difference, we don't even have permission from USA and Israel to sell tejas at it has their engine and avionics.

Lol gripen use same Radar and engine does this bar them to sell their aircraft to brazil or others.Brazil is a bric nation for example. Please come with better excuse next time

 

[NKVD]

Pakistan negotiated with British and Italian defence firms regarding avionics and radars for the JF-17 development. Radar options include the Italian Galileo Avionica's Grifo S7,[54] the FrenchThomson-CSF's RC400 (a variant of theRDY-2),[55] and the British company SELEX Galileo's Vixen 500E active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.[3]

still it uses chinese KLj-7 substandard why ????

n 2010, the PAF had reportedly selected ATE Aerospace Group to integrate French-built avionics and weapons systems over rival bids from Astrac, Finmeccanica and a Thales-Sagem joint venture. Fifty JF-17s were to be upgraded and an optional fifty from 2013 onwards, at a cost of up toUS$1.36 billion. The RC-400 radar, MICAAAMs, and several air-to-surface weapons are believed to be in the contract. The PAF also held talks with South Africa for the supply of Denel A-darter AAMs.

Tell me when any of the deal cut through

 

[Lostsoldier]

Lol gripen use same Radar and engine does this bar them to sell their aircraft to brazil or others.Brazil is a bric nation for example. Please come with better excuse next time

Don't compare gripped with lca.haha

 

[NKVD]

Don't compare gripped with lca.haha

then don't compare chinese substandard items with par Western tech.
Some Compression.

Weight:

Tejas: Not exactly known but 5.5 to 6.0 tons

Grippen: 6.5 Tons

Advantage: Tejas.


RCS:

Tejas: Tejas is small and uses More composite in air frame

Grippen: Big and uses less composite in air frame

Advantage: Tejas

RADAR:

Tejas: Tejas has 650 MM Dia Radar with pick Power of 10.5 KW

Grippen: Grippen has 600 MM Dia Radar with pick Power of 8.5 KW

Advantage: Tejas


Engine:

Same for both engine. No advantage

T/W Ratio:

Same engine but Tejas is light

Advantage : Tejas.


ITR:

Advantage: Tejas


STR:

Advantage: Gripen.

Source: LCA Tejas MK 1 VS Gripen C/D

 

[Lostsoldier]

still it uses chinese KLj-7 substandard why ????



Tell me when any of the deal cut through

That's sheer ignorance.Tell me when lca starts firing bvr, gets foc,meets IAF requirement and is ready for export.

 

[Lostsoldier]

then don't compare chinese substandard items with par Western tech.
Some Compression.

Weight:

Tejas: Not exactly known but 5.5 to 6.0 tons

Grippen: 6.5 Tons

Advantage: Tejas.


RCS:

Tejas: Tejas is small and uses More composite in air frame

Grippen: Big and uses less composite in air frame

Advantage: Tejas

RADAR:

Tejas: Tejas has 650 MM Dia Radar with pick Power of 10.5 KW

Grippen: Grippen has 600 MM Dia Radar with pick Power of 8.5 KW

Advantage: Tejas


Engine:

Same for both engine. No advantage

T/W Ratio:

Same engine but Tejas is light

Advantage : Tejas.


ITR:

Advantage: Tejas


STR:

Advantage: Gripen.

Source: LCA Tejas MK 1 VS Gripen C/D

Grippen inducted and exported,fires bvr aam.Lca doesn't fire bvr doesn't have foc.Even mig 21 fires bvr aam.
What about aoa on both?

 

[Lostsoldier]

then don't compare chinese substandard items with par Western tech.

Tell me any west nation except usa.Which is superior to China in terms of tech and indigenous equip.?

 

[NKVD]

Grippen inducted and exported,fires bvr aam.Lca doesn't fire bvr doesn't have foc.Even mig 21 fires bvr aam.
What about aoa on both?

swedish are Eu partner they have history of building jet fighters they have access to western par tech unlike india which a new Player .jf-17 even cannot fir Bvr too except few Photoshop-ed picture none of the proofs are available jf -17 inducted after getting just ioc.

 

[Lostsoldier]

swedish are Eu partner they have history of building jet fighters they have access to western par tech unlike india which a new Player .jf-17 even cannot fir Bvr too except few Photoshop-ed picture none of the proofs are available jf -17 inducted after getting just ioc.

@Oscar is that true?