HRK
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because Ship at port is not consider deployed, Indian Navy statement about the the Vikramaditya deployment must be indicating deployment for operational tasks
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Where is INS Vikramaditya?
- Thread starter Safriz
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MilSpec
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Man, What has ISPR done to you guys,
"
In the 1971 war, the Navy's achievements in the Bay of Bengal sprung from Admiral Nanda's insistence that VIKRANT be sent out at sea and Captain Parkash's courage in letting his eager pilots push to the extreme, the safety limits for launching and recovering aircraft in the low wind conditions in the northern part of the Bay of Bengal.
There is no doubt that many of the strikes by Vikrant's aircraft not only hit many vital targets on shore, damaged and sank many ships and crafts, it instilled fear in the enemy. She was considered important enough by the Pakistanis that they sent the submarine Ghazi all the way to the Bay of Bengal to mine the Visakhapatnam harbor in an attempt to sink the aircraft carrier when she put to sea. Vikrant and her aircraft made sure that no supply could reach the enemy by sea. The escape route of Pakistani land forces from East Pakistan by sea was completely cut off. These factors undoubtedly helped substantially to hasten the surrender of Pakistani troops.
"
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/r-vikrant.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20100508210258/http://orbat.com/site/cimh/navy/kills(1971)-2.pdf
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HRK
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@Rashid Mahmood
any significance of this, even though Indian Navy statement of deployment is declaring different status ....???
Bratva
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Your concern about ISPR is laudable. But You know what trumps ISPR Jokers ?
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-down-pakistans-f-16/articleshow/68205140.cms
No shortage of crybabies and bigger jokers than ISPR in neighborhood. I like this guy to be our next DG-ISPR
Hakikat ve Hikmet
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The problem is once the Indians start hyping up some machines they get dead....
YeBeWarned
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Are you vying for DG ISPR position? You would make a good candidate.
Not sure if you know how google earth works, but then again ,
You don't have to show your Venom against ISPR in every thread, you have title so respect it , last time a Indian TT forget his Auqaat, he was kicked from the forum .
@WebMaster @Horus @waz @The Eagle @Dubious check this guy, he is been targeting ISPR for sometime even in random threads ..
Arsalan 345
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ins vikramaditya is not updating it's AIS position so basically without it,you can't trace it.it's surely close to our coast.
MilSpec
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Ohh, this forum is more than welcome to remove whatever title it wants to remove, that wouldn't change the fact that Pakistan's propaganda machine whether it is it's foreign ministry (masquerading Photographs of Gaza in UN) to it's Foreign Ministry and state News reporting Pakistans on verge of victory in 71 to ISPR Kargil drama. Your entire armed forces machinery so actively skewed your own history that your own EX-ACM had the following to say about your Propaganda machinery.
Since the 1965 war was based on a big lie and was presented to the nation a great victory, the Army came to believe its own fiction and has used since, Ayub as its role model and therefore has continued to fight unwanted wars — the 1971 war and the Kargil fiasco in 1999 - ACM Nur Khan
And before trashing ACM Nur Khan, do pay attention to his credentials.
Hilal-e-Jurat
Hilal-e-Shujaat
Hilal-e-Quaid-i-Azam
Sitara-e-Pakistan
PAF Base Chaklala was renamed as PAF Base Nur Khan in 2012.
No wonder members here think INS Vikrant was in hiding in 71.
Or the ones that don't realize Hawker Seahawks (Vikrant Jets) sunk bulk of your eastern fleet close to 5 decades ago.
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Arsalan 345
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sir propaganda is on both sides but it's a reality that india don't want pakistan to exist.everyone in your country is behaving like they are king of asia.kargil has changed everything.1971 was a bad experience.kargil showed us the path of dominance.it changed our mindset from defensive to attacking.before kargil,everything was different.now we can believe that we can defeat you in a limited war.we just don't have the resources for full fledged war.obviously we don't want to attack india now.aggression doesn't really mean victory.your current government is very aggressive and they think that pakistan is their enemy.if this mindset continue,we will end up in a limited conflict.since 1947,india is trying hard to dominate us but we will not accept your demands.we want to live with freedom.
yes people in india say that india defeated pakistan in 65.it's not true.india asked for cease fire first,not pakistan.also your general in 65 said that that we don't have enough weapons.now your media making new stories that there was no shortage of weapons in 65.i mean you can say anything but world accepted the bravery of pakistan armed forces.71 was a useless war.india defeated pakistan using mukhti bahini.
now after doing 71,how can you think that we will stay silent and watch kashmir unrest? india isn't interested in kashmir.they just want to use kashmir to provoke pakistan.proxy is on both sides.you can't blame pakistan for every terror attack.also you can't blame ispr.in present situation,we are strong and can win a limited conflict against india.kindly forget this 1947 story of domination.we aren't weak now.
MilSpec
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It would be suitable to remove that from your narrative, 1947, the first action of an independent state of Pakistan was aggression against India.
1965 was again unilateral agression against India; post 71, in a year India already demonstrated it's nuclear power, but took no action against the remnant of Pakistan post war, although Pakistani forces were decimated. So the Idea, India doesn't wants pakistan to exist never has or will hold true.
That again is due to your poor sense of history, tactically Kargil was similar to Operation Gibraltor of 65; in 34 years of planning, PA managed to modify it's tactics to "Janab Sardi mein chad jaate hain".
That is awesome, belief is a good thing, but when promulgated from PA, it lends itself to "1 mussalman greater than 10 hindus"; "Security of east lies in the west" and "Bleed India by 1000 cuts".These grand belief despite what your establishment would like for you to believe doesn't pan out the way they envision it.
Cool, read some of the views of "People from Pakistan"
Air Chief Marshal: Asghar Khan
Air Chief Marshal: Nur Khan
Brig (Retd) Saeed Ismat
Major (Retd.) Agha Humayun Amin
Col. S.G Mehd (SSG Commander)
(Combined military and service credentials that dwarfs pretty much every voice here)
What do you have to say about 1965 war?
If you were to ask me this question when I was a young officer, my reply would have been quite different because I fought in that war, saw tactical action and in my perception we did well and beat back the aggressor and won the war. As one matures, learns and has the ability to analyze, one begins to differentiate between myth and reality, of course, with the advantage of the hindsight. 1965 War manifested the shortsightedness and immaturity of our political and military leadership. Pakistan started with ‘Operation Gibraltar’ in Kashmir. We have been made to think it was very bold and imaginative in conception and prepared by a great General. In my opinion it was bold, unimaginative, unpracticable plan. It was not in harmony with prevailing environment in Indian Held Kashmir. It was based on dangerous assumptions and its time frame was unrealistic and quixotic. The plan reflected strategic naivety and immaturity. To top it all the preparation and subsequently the execution displayed lack of professionalism. Since it lacked politico-strategic framework and vision it placed Pakistan in a very precarious position. On its failure, ‘Operation Grandslam’ was launched, which did make military sense since it enjoyed the superiority of strategic orientation. The capture of objective (Akhnur Bridges) would sever the Indian lines of communication in Kashmir and force them to retract. This operation was to suffer a major setback when the advance was halted because of an explainable change of command in the middle of the battle. Indians were so threatened by this move that they attacked with full might across the international border threatening Lahore and Sialkot. Our leaders panicked, ‘Operation Grandslam’ was brought to a grinding halt. Later, a brilliantly conceived Riposte from Khem Karan failed because a correct mix of units was not mustered to achieve a superior relative strength situation at the right time at the right place. We won a lot of battles but lost the war as we failed to attain the political aim of defreezing and the ultimate liberation of the Kashmir. Ayub Khan thus ruined the national economy by one wrong decision that had taken him several years to build.
Brig (Retd) Saeed Ismat, SJ
Cover Story
This in short is Nur Khan’s version of 1965 war, which he calls an unnecessary war and says that President Ayub for whom he has the greatest regard should have held his senior generals accountable for the debacle and himself resigned.
This would have held the hands of the adventurers who followed Gen Ayub. Since the 1965 war was based on a big lie and was presented to the nation a great victory, the Army came to believe its own fiction and has used since, Ayub as its role model and therefore has continued to fight unwanted wars — the 1971 war and the Kargil fiasco in 1999, he said.
In each of the subsequent wars we have committed the same mistakes that we committed in 1965.
Air Marshal Khan demanded that a truth commission formed to find out why we failed in all our military adventures. It is not punishment of the failed leadership that should be the aim of the commission but sifting of facts from fiction and laying bare the follies and foibles of the irresponsible leaders in matters with grave implications for the nation. It should also point out the irregularities committed in training and promotions in the defence forces in the past so that it is not repeated in future
Nur Khan reminisces ’65 war - Newspaper - DAWN.COM
Excerpt From the conclusion:
Major (Retd.) Agha Humayun Amin:
Ambition, lust for glory etc are perfectly reasonable aspirations where they are matched with military talent pertaining to operational strategy, low intensity operations, strategic insight or statesmanship! All these were sadly lacking at all levels, except unit level bravery and enthusiasm! Gibraltar failed because of pure and unadulterated military incompetence and Akhtar Malik bears the principle responsibility for Gibraltar! The Grand Slam story was different!It wasnot a case ofbalanced distribution of lack of talent at all levels that resulted in the failure of Grand Slam! The principle reason why Grand Slam failed was delay in initial launching and change of command!
Grand Slam - A Battle of Lost Opportunities
this is your Air Chief Marshal Asghar Khan.
Some of Col. S.G Mehdi wisdom.
Conclusion by SSG’s commander: “Had our Government initiated a probe into concept, conduct and consequences of 1965 War’, and raised the curtain from the acts of gross omission or that of the criminal commission, the ignominy of 1971 could have been avoided. “
1965 War — Some Harsh Realities | Ehtisham Siddiqui
now before we wan't to diss Nur Khan and alike, just be aware that ACM Nur Khan is pretty much the template for a Hero, Took the Fight to Indians, Fought Israelis in 6 day war, Program director of F86 Sabre's, Diffused a Plane Hijacking single-handedly, built the frame work for PIA, Transformed Hockey, Squash and Cricket in pakistan. Pretty much a statesman of no comparison in contemporary Pakistan. I would pay heed to his words,
The question is where is indian aircraft carier?? Not what happened in 65 or 71...
U can rule a sub continent for 1000 years through military power and still lose pivotal wars and lose an empire....
Date is march 2019 .. 71 was 50 years ago
U can rule a sub continent for 1000 years through military power and still lose pivotal wars and lose an empire....
Date is march 2019 .. 71 was 50 years ago
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