When Urdu was the dominant language in Afghanistan

[INS_Vikrant]

Urdu will be there for a long time. simply because its so closely related to Hindi. Bollywood has popularized Urdu in Afghanisthan.

Amazing that bollywood has popularized hindi in a foreign country (Afg) while they couldn't do that in India here where majority of people don't speak hindi

 

[Bouncer]

Punjabis in their hatred of Karachites/urdu are forgetting that Punjabis owned Urdu long before Urdu speaking immigrants arrived from India.

Never have I ever heard any Punjabi saying something hateful about Karachi'ites. What are you on about??

Despite all of this and me being a native urdu speaker, I still believe we should have gone with either Arabic for Farsi at the time of partition.

If language alone can propel any nation to prosperity then by your logic, why not adapt English which is already our official language or Japanese, German or Korean for that matter?

 

[Chak Bamu]

Punjabis in their hatred of Karachites/urdu are forgetting that Punjabis owned Urdu long before Urdu speaking immigrants arrived from India.

Secondly, linguistically urdu and punjabi are on the same branch very similar and the Punjabi spoken in Pakistan has the same basic vocab as urdu, same syntax and sentence structure. It's not an alien language and both can be seen as a dialect of each other. If anything it's all due to the fact that the backing of Urdu by Punjabis is sole reason why Pakistanis are not speaking Bengali today, a language all too unfamiliar and alien to all ethnicities in West Pakistan.

Despite all of this and me being a native urdu speaker, I still believe we should have gone with either Arabic for Farsi at the time of partition. Our destination would have been closely linked to and our outlook more in line with West Asia, instead of the third world cesspool of South Asia.

Shots in the dark....

Why don't you think before you post?

1. No, Punjabis might be irritated at Urdu-speakers for adopting superior airs, but we love Urdu.

2. Yes, linguistically Punjabi & Urdu are on the same tree, but the environment & temperament of speakers as the languages evolved are quite different. Punjabi is older & had at least 150 years of head-start as far as contact with Persian / Turkish (& even Arabic to a limited degree) is concerned. So despite being related, these two are certainly different languages.

3. Bengali never had a chance. While Bengali elites spoke Urdu, in Pakistan nobody had any contact with Bengali language. Let us not even go there.

4. There was perhaps some space for Persian, but Arabic was a complete non-starter. In my teens I briefly thought that Arabic would have been a good choice, but as I matured I realized that it would have been a complete folly. Why would anyone in Pakistan, apart from religious scholars, speak Arabic? Are we Arabs? Do we want to emulate Arabs? We are Desis & if some are not comfortable with being Desi, then they ought to migrate to GCC / Egypt etc....

5. We don't live in West Asia.

6. South Asia is OK. It used to be the first world & center of learning - Taxila should ring a bell.

Be comfortable with being who you are & allow people to be comfortable with who they are. Live & let live in peace. No weird theories are needed to be content & happy.

 

[dBSPL]

Another fun fact,
The Great Horde, which is the Kipchak Khanate, is mentioned as Altın Orda/Ordu/Urda (in Tatar Turkish Altın Urda, and Altan Ord in Mongolian) in Turkic/Mongolic sources. In Mongolian, Ord/Orda means "otağ*(Otağ, Hakan/Khan's marquee, magnificent and big tent in Turkish, Altai and Mongolian folk culture)" and great gathering place. Altın/Altın means gold. It is rumored that this state was called the AltınOrda or the AkOrda because the upper part of the white pavilion of Batu Khan, the founder of the state, was gilded. In other words, it has been translated into English sources with a meaning shift.

If today's Urdu word is originally related to the Ord/Ordu origin, it may indeed indicate an incredible historical depth and cultural interaction.

 

[El Sidd]

Another fun fact,
The Great Horde, which is the Kipchak Khanate, is mentioned as Altın Orda/Ordu/Urda (in Tatar Turkish Altın Urda, and Altan Ord in Mongolian) in Turkic/Mongolic sources. In Mongolian, Ord/Orda means "otağ*(Otağ, Hakan/Khan's marquee, magnificent and big tent in Turkish, Altai and Mongolian folk culture)" and great gathering place. Altın/Altın means gold. It is rumored that this state was called the AltınOrda or the AkOrda because the upper part of the white pavilion of Batu Khan, the founder of the state, was gilded. In other words, it has been translated into English sources with a meaning shift.

If today's Urdu word is originally related to the Ord/Ordu origin, it may indeed indicate an incredible historical depth and cultural interaction.

In Bhagynagar, formerly known as Hyderabad, the Urdu speakers are called Turkulu, of Turkic origins.

The last administrator or Nizam took refuge in Turkey after the princely state was overrun by the Indian union.

In Bhagynagar, formerly known as Hyderabad, the Urdu speakers are called Turkulu, of Turkic origins.

The term is used to identify Muslims or those deemed foreigners.

It's one of many fronts of the Urdu campaign in India.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Punjabis in their hatred of Karachites/urdu are forgetting that Punjabis owned Urdu long before Urdu speaking immigrants arrived from India.

Secondly, linguistically urdu and punjabi are on the same branch very similar and the Punjabi spoken in Pakistan has the same basic vocab as urdu, same syntax and sentence structure. It's not an alien language and both can be seen as a dialect of each other. If anything it's all due to the fact that the backing of Urdu by Punjabis is sole reason why Pakistanis are not speaking Bengali today, a language all too unfamiliar and alien to all ethnicities in West Pakistan.

Despite all of this and me being a native urdu speaker, I still believe we should have gone with either Arabic for Farsi at the time of partition. Our destination would have been closely linked to and our outlook more in line with West Asia, instead of the third world cesspool of South Asia.

why are y'all so frickin insecure, first guy was saying Urdu will be replaced and it'll die off- because people "hate" us
second guy is saying "hatred for karachiates/urdu" when he is clearly saying somehow replacing mother tounge with Urdu is an act of patriotism/nationalism or those who do that are more "patriotic" calling out this logic is "hatred" are you insane? and of course only people supporting it are y'all cause other people whose mother tongue are not yours realize how tragic it is, and they will never ever appreciate this thought process, and will take him to cleaners for it

And you by calling it a "dialect" are ofcourse wrong (if you have said "similar" than probably true) cause A-by dialect you are saying its the same thing so doesn't really matter if it stays or not infact better to dump it B-to be a dialect it needs to be "understood" even though its different in some ways
This is a dialect because you can understand this

this is although similar but still a different language because you'll probably need a translator to understand him

And no- we are not part of west asia and we don't want Arabic, persian due to history might be a different story but rn everyone loves and owns urdu as its own(as long as y'all stop being disrespectful towards local languages, this is where you'll get a strong response) , so its a dumb conversation

 

[Drizzt]

Amazing that bollywood has popularized hindi in a foreign country (Afg) while they couldn't do that in India here where majority of people don't speak hindi

Lahore to Delhi is 400km, Kabul to Delhi is 900km,
while Bangalore to Delhi is 2000+km.
Pakistan and Afghanistan are more closer to Delhi both geographically and culturally. South States are part of India for the same reason, North East states are part of India. British rule. Brahminism religion aka Hinduism is also British Social Engineering. If we exclude the Sanskrit words, Dravidian Languages have nothing in common with North Languages.

 

[TheSolution]

And we must have been sucking Hindu cock for keeping their Hindi alive in Pakistan for the past 75 years.

At least Urdu is linguistically similar to what we've been speaking within Pakistan anyway, it's a close proximity regional language. At this point even a large portion of f*cking Afghans are speaking it!

Meanwhile you want to suck off the Arabs who already have a superiority complex, and fuel your own inferiority complex, with a language you have no link to. It's like you purposefully want to be humiliated.

I wouldn't mind Persian, but Arabic is a stupid idea and is humiliating.

It's too late to switch in my opinion anyway, but if we did Persian is a better choice.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Another fun fact,
The Great Horde, which is the Kipchak Khanate, is mentioned as Altın Orda/Ordu/Urda (in Tatar Turkish Altın Urda, and Altan Ord in Mongolian) in Turkic/Mongolic sources. In Mongolian, Ord/Orda means "otağ*(Otağ, Hakan/Khan's marquee, magnificent and big tent in Turkish, Altai and Mongolian folk culture)" and great gathering place. Altın/Altın means gold. It is rumored that this state was called the AltınOrda or the AkOrda because the upper part of the white pavilion of Batu Khan, the founder of the state, was gilded. In other words, it has been translated into English sources with a meaning shift.

If today's Urdu word is originally related to the Ord/Ordu origin, it may indeed indicate an incredible historical depth and cultural interaction.

Khalaj the Turkic nomads that threaded the region from Turkiye to Pakistan. As Oghuz Turks speaking a proto-Turkic Arghu language, of course only now spoken in Iran and heavily Persianized and somewhat similar to Azeri...
They ruled Central Asia, Khorasan, South Asia(Khalji) and of course west Asia.

Amazing how the Horde came together!

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

If today's Urdu word is originally related to the Ord/Ordu origin, it may indeed indicate an incredible historical depth and cultural interaction.

My Urdu began here:

"Gen 25:6 relates that Abraham sent the sons of Keturah away from Isaac “eastward, to the land of the East.” He told them: Go as far eastward as you can, so you will not be burnt by the burning coal of Isaac (Gen. Rabbah 61:7)."

Jewish narration is full of crass, tribal bigotry against the other two wives of Prophet Ibrahim and their descendants.

Keturah: Midrash and Aggadah | Jewish Women's Archive

Keturah was one of Abraham’s wives. The Rabbis describe her as a woman of virtue, for which she was worthy of being joined to Abraham.

jwa.org

 

[Tamerlane]

Didn’t someone say: “If Urdu didn’t exist we would have had to invent it.” Pakistan is kept together with two things. Islam and Urdu.

Here’s how Urdu started. Delhi was the capital of Muslim India from 1200 AD to 1857. When the Muslims founded the city the local language of the natives was Khariboli, a primitive language spoken by peasants. The ruling Muslims spoke Persian, Turkish and Arabic. The mother tongue of the original Mughals, like Babar, was Turkish as they were from Uzbekistan. The official language was Persian.

Over hundreds of years a new language developed using Khariboli grammar and Persian/Turkish/Arabic vocabulary. This language was called Hindustani or Hindvi. Initially it was spoken by the lower classes, including soldiers. Which is why it was called Urdu—the language of the camp. It became the street language while the elite spoke Persian.

By the end of the Mughal empire Urdu was being spoken by the elite as well. Bahadur Shah Zafar the last Mughal emperor wrote poetry in Urdu.

Hindustani/Hindvi/Urdu was identified with Muslim rule and Muslims all over India spoke it, but so did Hindus. When the British landed and started their divide-and-rule policy they turned Hindus against Muslims, so the Hindus took Urdu and removed Persian/Turkish/Arabic and added vocabulary from Sanskrit and named it Hindi. Plus they switched to an Indian script. It wasn’t a separate language originally but was made into one.

Urdu is a good representation of our history. We are living in this neighbourhood, so we have an Indian grammar. Some of our ancestors were Turkish speaking. The official language of Muslim India was Persian for hundreds of years. Islam gave us Arabic. British rule gave us English. Modern Urdu is a mix of all of these. Plus it’s now got Punjabi/Pushto words as well.

Like I said. If it didn’t exist we’d have to create it. It’s ridiculous to suggest any other language. It’s our language and represents our whole history.

Interesting side note: The language of educated Hindus was Sanskrit but it was a dead language used only by Hindu priests. The common Hindus didn’t speak Sanskrit. Urdu wasn’t based on Sanskrit, but Khariboli.

Sanskrit is nothing other than ancient Persian. It came to India from Iran a long time before Islam. Sanskrit is a version of ancient Persian. So Indians removed modern Persian from Urdu and added ancient Persian to create their Hindi.

PS: I don’t debate with Indians. All comments, disputes, tantrums will be ignored.

 

[kingQamaR]

Urdu did not originate in Pakistan. Urdu was formed from the mixture of native northern Indian grammar and syntax and vocabulary from Persian, Arabic and Turkish. Urdu was mostly only spoken natively in Delhi and UP. Major centers of Urdu literature were Allahabad (Prayagraj now), Lucknow, Aligarh and Delhi. Other than this deccani Urdu was and is still spoken in Hyderabad.

Urdu was the language of education in many areas such as Punjab etc. It was never spoken in the areas comprising present day Pakistan natively except of regions like Lahore. Mostly the native languages of Pakistan were and still are spoken including Sindhi, Punjabi, Balochi, Pashto and Kashmiri. it is used as a lingua franca today.

The reason Urdu was chosen as the language of Pakistan was because I suppose it was viewed as a unifying language for all Muslims. Also a lot of immigrants to Pakistan were from Urdu speaking areas so they brought their language with them.

 

[Tamerlane]

BTW, the British weren’t promoting Urdu, they were eliminating Persian. That was the official language of Muslim India for centuries and the British wanted to get rid of it and replace it with English, which they did. They wanted to totally destroy the Muslim elite, which they also did. They shut down Persian schools and made English the official language.

 

[kingQamaR]

Farsi was alienated and banned by the British long before the creation of Pakistan as I have read in Pakistan studies in school.

Still there are some ethnic Hazaras in Quetta and Baloch who speak Persian.

But they call it Hazargi and the same in Afghanistan is called Dari which is the name of ancient Farsi.