What Russia’s Stealth Fighter Developments Mean for America

[applesauce]

no its true, the J11 has many problems. It is very hard to reverse engineer something. Very very hard.

yea ok, i suppose thats why rather than make a full 200 su-27 china abadone it at ~100 and went for the j-11B's with its reduced RCS, better electronics and superior (higher %)composite frame.

 

[alpha124]

So INDIAN FGFA version is waterd down pak-fa's

U r wrong..
FGFA will have the best from the best..
It will have best components from PAK FA Russia...
best components from Israel,France,Germany,India..
Like the difference of SU-30MK and SU-30MKI..
MKi is the most advanced version of Su-30 around the world..
It will be far different from Pak FA and
FGFA will be costlier than PAK FA...
And well also get Source code and TOT...
Some one should be mindless to think that Russia will give india watered down version,coz India also has invested and FGFA will be designed by both HAL and Sukhoi..
But i'm 1000% sure that if russia exports PAK FA to other 3rd party countries it will be a watered down version..
I think u got it corect now..

 

[gambit]

Yes they would. But most important thing with every design is it meeting the design requirements. If the design isn't stealthy, there's no point to it.

Fuel and weapons load might be affected, but then there are ways to correct that too. They could have configured the intakes in a number of ways. They didn't and still went ahead with the project. That means only a couple of things.

1. They have found a way to make the aircraft stealthy.
2. They have gone nuts. lol

Fuel and weapons WILL, not might, be affected. Fuel and weapons are 'transitory' loads, if you will. Another factor is the loss rate of these loads. Fuel loss is gradual while weapons are instant losses. They will affect center of gravity and behaviors. This is why fuel are transfered outward in. The engines are fed from fuselage fuel tanks but outer fuel sources, such as wings or externals, feeds the fuselage tanks. The result is the fuselage tanks are the last to empty. Fuel sloshes affects maneuvers. Baffles to reduce sloshes increases weight and decrease fuel capacity, no matter how little. Talk to racing motorcycles designers and they will tell you how the bike's fuel tank being so high off cg and fuel sloshes make their work difficult. Still think it is easy...???

I believe the first possibility. I don't buy the argument that the engineers compromised on stealth on a 5th gen fighter aircraft.

They may not have a choice.

 

[gambit]

And you should know, that ITAE has published papers on how to reduce the RCS of inlet ducts on the S-27/30/35 planes and have "as they say" manage to do so. They have also managed to reduce the rcs contribution from the canopy btw.
So although the engines may not be the final ones, an alternative method might exist for them.




and then they could go for a different design. That would be one of their primary goals.

Everyone on the plane community has been advertising how important hiding the compressor blades is, I think they would have picked up on it.

I understand how you can be sceptical, but a man of your background would wait before counting all his eggs.

And I do. What I dispute is the current assumptions that the PAK-FA's fanboys are still making in many corners. Take the engines for example. If the final production model has visible engine blades through the intakes, we know that the designers have no choice but to place them that way, not that they are unaware of the negative factors the engines are to RCS controls.

 

[mnd]

And I do. What I dispute is the current assumptions that the PAK-FA's fanboys are still making in many corners. Take the engines for example. If the final production model has visible engine blades through the intakes, we know that the designers have no choice but to place them that way, not that they are unaware of the negative factors the engines are to RCS controls.

I love how you talk about fanboys, despite being one yourself. You and all, disscussing, giving opinions about a subject is nice, but making baseless claims by looking at a picture is just stupid. Let´s have common sense guys. If all of that was true then Sukhoi would have fired all its engineers and started contracting ten year olds.

 

[gambit]

I love how you talk about fanboys, despite being one yourself.

Nothing wrong with being a 'fanboy'...But...

You and all, disscussing, giving opinions about a subject is nice, but making baseless claims by looking at a picture is just stupid. Let´s have common sense guys. If all of that was true then Sukhoi would have fired all its engineers and started contracting ten year olds.

What claims have I made that are baseless? I have explained basic radar detection principles enough here that to date no one disputed. Everything mentioned is in the public domain. Keyword searches are encouraged -- BY ME. The idea that a jet engine should NOT be visible by through the intake system due to high radar reflectivity has yet to be dismissed by the military aviation community.

 

[amalakas]

The idea that a jet engine should NOT be visible by through the intake system due to high radar reflectivity has yet to be dismissed by the military aviation community.

because it is true,engine blades increase rcs at least an order of magnitude

 

[typhoon77]

I heard of that, but I have not read it myself. Can you direct us to that info please ?

The PAK-FA Saga Episode XV - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums
Here's the current Pak-Fa thread. you can go and search for the previous ones where there is a huge debate over whether the picture is photoshopped or not. MP.net has one giant PAK-FA thread.

I figure that the compressor face will still be left partially exposed with the new engines, but the new radar blocker being developed would deal with that. I might be wrong but we'll have to wait and see.