We should stop producing just engineers

[AZ1]

Produce Software Engineers so that they can earn from themselves online as well and bring $ more. We are at $5 billion should be 15 billion if we focus on this.

 

[gangsta_rap]

There is a shift towards business and economics. In karachi i think the youth now consider a program from IBA more often than an NED program.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Bhai in Pakistani muwashra when someone has a new idea or unique talent his own family members make fun of him and discourage him.

It's part of same dismissive attitude found on PDF. Ohhh we don't need it. Ohh it's too expensive. Ohh someone else will make it and sell it to us, for us. Ohh let's just bury our heads in the sand.

Pathetic. We are better than this. I know because we have shown that when our only options were being steadfast or defeat.

What we need is every university, collage, school should forward names of potential students who have appetite for invention and groom them so they can enhance us a nation but this need commitment from govt and education institute.

 

[Jango]

overall.... FSc students are told to go for either electrical, computer , telecom, mech degree.. The lot which doesn't perform well go for FA, BA and even that in social science mainly. But few actually go for economics, commerce etc etc.. a quick glance in your relative occupation may reveal that. so that is title.

Yup, that's a fair point.

I thought it was building on something which the show participants said.

 

[Goenitz]

good video about ECM, ECMM etc

 

[Syed1.]

There is a shift towards business and economics. In karachi i think the youth now consider a program from IBA more often than an NED program.

I think that has more to do with how prestigious and rigorous IBA is compared to how archaic and outdated NED is, than preference between economics or engineering.


My father graduated from NED back in the 80s, I'm pretty sure they will be teaching the same curriculum to this day. I also sat at the NED entrance test and alhumdulilah secured sufficient merit for my program of choice but Allah Almighty had other plans for me.

One thing I thoroughly disliked was that your standing at the entrance exam determined which program you will do. Basically the top merit folks will get into electrical/mechanical etc..... but those that didn't secure good enough marks were forced into environmental/chemical etc. That is a pathetic way to go about it. An entrance exam should only determine a candidate's ability to secure admission to university, and then he/she should be free to choose the program of his/her choice. With the current method we are making sure only the "mediocre" students go into certain fields and even those students wouldn't have a heart in what they are studying since those weren't their first choice.

 

[Vapnope]

The problem with our engineering institutes is that they produce technicians and not people who would pursue research and development. The economical situation pushes people to look for easy medium for earning which in Pakistan's case are jobs. There is a brain drain as well in Pakistan mostly because of dearth of opportunities in various fields. Some of my brilliant engineers left Pakistan because of the same reasons. We need to divert our resources towards R&D, there is a need to educate people about entrepreneurship as well.

 

[Goenitz]

The problem with our engineering institutes is that they produce technicians and not people who would pursue research and development. The economical situation pushes people to look for easy medium for earning which in Pakistan's case are jobs. There is a brain drain as well in Pakistan mostly because of dearth of opportunities in various fields. Some of my brilliant engineers left Pakistan because of the same reasons. We need to divert our resources towards R&D, there is a need to educate people about entrepreneurship as well.

You know why TTP turned to be a 'blessing' for Pak? Or Trump in office. Because it burst the bubble. While Trump in office all the racist not only surfaced but they took all their anger/questions/hate out, which was then countered. Now it aligns Muslims with like minded white, Mexican etc etc and thus making a clear distinction between right or wrong rather than race.

Similarly, TTP rise burst the bubble that we don't need to guard our some borders. We cannot rely on Tribes alone. As now everyone have deadly weapon compared to 47 and Tribes can be challenged by few well armed trained terrorists so we need regular forces at our all borders. Plus whenever there is rise of militia suddenly they get all the hi tech weapons.

Hence we cannot rely on well wishes of country as their policy may change. Like US refrained Pak not to attack in 62 and US assured that they would help it to solve politically. ZA Bhutto had 3 meeting with them. Like Egypt was relaxing when Israel took out its planes on runway bcz US assured that Israel will not attack.


Now why is related to your answer. Like TTP/Trump rise, all the agitated/extremist burst out and then its easy to clean them or counter them. Like Hun used to fire arrows while riding so enemy group together then they charged with heavy cavalry to that mustered group.

Similarly, the most agitated people are always young people. They want to do more but our few institutions and lack of research means they stay in office jobs. My all brilliant classmates joined suparco etc and now manager but doing routine work as funding is issue. Compared to us some low GPA scorer all went abroad bcz we wanted to do something but didn't have opportunity in Pak. So mostly ended in PhD or job doing abroad.

So all we need to guide our young bright student to learn languages like italian, german, korean etc and pursue Masters, PhD in these low academic cost countries. Bcz these agitated people can only do something. In our case we didn't get agitated until we didn't have any opportunity in Pak. So these agitated (excited like valence electrons ) people just need channel and guidance. Like rise of TTP/Trump lead all scum to muster together. Like of Tamil tigers, they have head quarter so easy to take out compared to BLA which is nomadic. What I mean is the 'talent' is there but it need a channel.

@Jango @Dubious @Markhoor long but try to read

What I meant quoting Trump/TTP example is that there will always be Mir sadiq/jaffar in a country and an 'opportunity' exposes them. Same for talent for cricket/academics, an opportunity. We need to guide our people that you are not born with Pak ID card. Learn languages and settle in these countries. It will help our future as they become more learned, will sent remittance and influence that society to develop a soft corner for us.

groups like this are really unsung heroes.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1701942073355712/

 

[nang2]

I mean seriously do we have to import these economist scum always?

Engineers are much safer to have than economists. Engineers are naturally bound by, well, nature. Their works either work or don't work. Economists, on the other hand, are God like. Even reality won't convince them that they could be wrong.

 

[Goenitz]

Engineers are much safer to have than economists. Engineers are naturally bound by, well, nature. Their works either work or don't work. Economists, on the other hand, are God like. Even reality won't convince them that they could be wrong.

For sure secondary activity is important and pillars of a country but these tertiary activities like lawyers, economists, journalists, managers etc shape country's trade, image, etc

 

[nang2]

For sure secondary activity is important and pillars of a country but these tertiary activities like lawyers, economists, journalists, managers etc shape country's trade, image, etc

Doesn't matter at which tier anyone's activities would be. They need to take the responsibilities on the consequences of these activities. If they are left unchecked, they will repeat these activities to their hearts content and to the ruin of their society.

 

[Goenitz]

Doesn't matter at which tier anyone's activities would be. They need to take the responsibilities on the consequences of these activities. If they are left unchecked, they will repeat these activities to their hearts content and to the ruin of their society.

For sure, even a sweeper doing a job responsibly is needed or a food vendor etc. My point is our focus should not be just sciences.

 

[nang2]

For sure, even a sweeper doing a job responsibly is needed or a food vendor etc. My point is our focus should not be just sciences.

That is for sure. But the life is never fair. Engineers are easily held responsible while those you listed are not so much. For me, breeding engineers is an easier route to get more responsible people.

 

[Vapnope]

@Goenitz
I agree with your assessment that we need to channel their agitation towards positive.

 

[Paul2]

Produce Software Engineers so that they can earn from themselves online as well and bring $ more. We are at $5 billion should be 15 billion if we focus on this.

My first higher education was an arc welding certificate I got from high school. I do not have any university education. My parents sent me off to pursue a "business degree" in the West - one of the most useless course of studies possible.

7 years now since the end of my studies, but I haven't done anything even remotely "businessy," and still work in electronics OEM, as I did before starting my studies (my first job in electronics was at 16)

The problem with our engineering institutes is that they produce technicians and not people who would pursue research and development. The economical situation pushes people to look for easy medium for earning which in Pakistan's case are jobs. There is a brain drain as well in Pakistan mostly because of dearth of opportunities in various fields. Some of my brilliant engineers left Pakistan because of the same reasons. We need to divert our resources towards R&D, there is a need to educate people about entrepreneurship as well.

Pakistan has a fair number of factories, and a moderately successful export of white goods. You do not need PhD engineers to do well in that occupation, just 2 year tech school for metalworking/welding/other light industry speciality.

Even this level of success wouldn't be possible without what little Pakistan currently does on the educational front. Otherwise any attempt to make anything moderately technically sophisticated would be ending in you being captive to "hired gun" specialists and consultants, who will cost you arm and a leg.

I once tried to pitch Mr. Talat of Orient Electronics on buying into out engineering services. He politely pointed out to it being kinda pointless economy-wise, and he was 100% correct in doing that. He is better off using cheap local engineering labour to do stuff like home appliances, than to hire expensive consultants who come and go to do something expensive