Watching Ukraine burn through ammo fighting Russia has the US Army rethinking how much it really needs for when war breaks out

[Hack-Hook]

seems the number of deaths in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan were not a trivial amount.

The difference is the US uses a lot of air power while Ukraine is mostly ground.

those were not usa doing

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

those were not usa doing

Well I guess you are letting us off the hook....okay on that

 

[jhungary]

Exactly.

Russia will be relegated to a minor league.

1) Rather than challenging Europe/US in the region for influence, they'll be on more or less parity with Ukraine.

2) Will have even more hostile Ukraine on the doorstep (the whole reason for invasion in the first step).

3) Have already lost Europe as a customer for their oil and gas. They're already having to offer steep discounts to China and India to make ends meet and are currently take all the risks as no western insurance firms will insure their cargo.

4) Play second fiddle to China going forward.

As for Ukraine, hopefully the west will help them rebuild and EU and NATO memberships are always on the cards.

At this rate, by the end of the war Putin is less likely to remain president of Russia than Zelensky is of Ukraine tbh.

Compare to the money, value and equipment the US send to Korea to try to reign in North Korea and the amount of equipment and money into Japan to reign in China, the US involvement in Ukraine is a bargain

I mean, 60 billions may be a lot of money for candy, but that just a drop in a bucket for the US in term of military equipment and while the US won't suffer any dead and only 60 billions or so to reign in Russia, that's a god damn bargain if you ask me.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Well I guess you are letting us off the hook....okay on that

guess, you were there to protect the headchoppers from Syrian army , you never participate in a war like what is going on in Ukraine

 

[Kejo]

First of all, if Ukraine "best tanks" are routinely destroyed, the Russia would have been in Kyiv right now, instead of getting stuck on day 10 target like Mykolaiv even Day 1 Target like Kherson has rolled back to Ukraine in the day 638 of this 3 days operation.

Second, NATO out produce North Korea or even China in term of artillery shell production. China at around 900,000-1.2 mil a year, US alone is between 380,000-420,000 a year (28,000-36,000 a month), Canada is somewhere around 50,000, France is close to 100,000 and Germany have the capacity to produce up to 450,000 a year, BAe in the UK have the capacity of 150,000 a year. That is before Major NATO allies such as South Korea, Australia, Japan, and other European non NATO allied (such as Austria, Sweden and so on) and Middle Eastern country put their number in.

The thing is, none of the nation in NATO are at war, which mean they can't send their entire stock to Ukraine. Nobody is that stupid to strip their entire supply for a war they did not fight, the issue here is NATO country would need their supply, and use their own supply, meanwhile supplying both Ukraine and Israeli their ammunition they use.

It's also important to point out that almost every single major member is investing in new factories and capacities right now. The production will rise exorbitantly over the next 2 to 3 years.

 

[Hack-Hook]

It's also important to point out that almost every single major member is investing in new factories and capacities right now. The production will rise exorbitantly over the next 2 to 3 years.

by what i knew of eu those production line will be repurposed after the war

 

[faithfulguy]

First of all, Ukraine reproachment to the west does not started back in 2014, given the fact that they lodge their first NATO membership bid in 2008, you can at least trace it back that far.

In realty, if you know Ukrainian politics, you will know even as far back as EDIT:: IT was 99 when Kuchma was president of Ukraine, he already started the Westward Approach, right up until Yushchenko dioxin poisoning, most likely by Kremlin, for trying to bring EU into Ukrainian parliament.

EU-Ukraine Summits: 16 Years of Wheel-Spinning | The Ukrainian Week

I mean, again, you are free to believe whatever you believe, but if you do not really know what you are talking about, maybe it's best to keep it to yourself?
.

They have what they wanted? Are you for real? So you are saying after 300,000 dead and wounded, and about 12000 tank and APC destroyed, and have to borrow munition from the like of Iran and North Korea, all they wanted is that 7% in Donbas?

The grand total of Russian advance of the ENTIRE 2023 (from 1-1-2023 to now, 24-11-2023) is 5 km into Bakhmut. That's it, that's the entire year of advance, they have been beaten back from Adviivka twice, beaten back form Vuledar, beaten back from Kupiansk.

Yes, I am pretty sure Russia had all that they wanted LOL............don't quit your day job buddy, whatever it was.

As for Nord stream, I don't know, either side don't have the need to destroy it, the fact is, the west is NOT going to buy Russian gas for a long time, so the need for Nord Stream 2 for both Russia and the West are zero. those are going to be abandoned regardless of whether or not it will be destroyed as long as sanction keep on, the issue here is, whether you believe Ukraine manage to do that back in September last yea, or Russian themselves blow them up and blame Ukraine or the West. That's up to you to decide

For Nordstream two, the US blow it up. You need to get your news from the correct source, such as Tucker Carlson, Gray Zone or Glenn Beck. As for the status in Ukraine. A good source is Viktor Orbane, the Hungarian PM. He knows that the war in Ukraine is over and the time for negotiation is now. Russia will keep what they have and Ukraine keep what they have. Russia now has the land Bridge to Crimea. Ukrainian lost a big chunk of it’s territory.

Compare to the money, value and equipment the US send to Korea to try to reign in North Korea and the amount of equipment and money into Japan to reign in China, the US involvement in Ukraine is a bargain

I mean, 60 billions may be a lot of money for candy, but that just a drop in a bucket for the US in term of military equipment and while the US won't suffer any dead and only 60 billions or so to reign in Russia, that's a god damn bargain if you ask me.

US need to bring home the troop and focus on our borders. Stop the neocon warmongering.The US need to build up America first and stop politicians from joining the defense contractors boards.

 

[aziqbal]

First of all, if Ukraine "best tanks" are routinely destroyed, the Russia would have been in Kyiv right now, instead of getting stuck on day 10 target like Mykolaiv even Day 1 Target like Kherson has rolled back to Ukraine in the day 638 of this 3 days operation.

Second, NATO out produce North Korea or even China in term of artillery shell production. China at around 900,000-1.2 mil a year, US alone is between 380,000-420,000 a year (28,000-36,000 a month), Canada is somewhere around 50,000, France is close to 100,000 and Germany have the capacity to produce up to 450,000 a year, BAe in the UK have the capacity of 150,000 a year. That is before Major NATO allies such as South Korea, Australia, Japan, and other European non NATO allied (such as Austria, Sweden and so on) and Middle Eastern country put their number in.

The thing is, none of the nation in NATO are at war, which mean they can't send their entire stock to Ukraine. Nobody is that stupid to strip their entire supply for a war they did not fight, the issue here is NATO country would need their supply, and use their own supply, meanwhile supplying both Ukraine and Israeli their ammunition they use.

says NATO and US who have 43 warships from 16 nations and 600,000 Israeli troops and still after 48 days couldn't take out a rag tag group in Gaza

and Gaza is 141 sq miles

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

For Nordstream two, the US blow it up. You need to get your news from the correct source, such as Tucker Carlson, Gray Zone or Glenn Beck. A

Ukraine military officer had key role in Nord Stream sabotage, reports say

President Zelenskyy has denied Ukraine was behind blasts that cut off major route for Russian gas exports to Europe.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[jhungary]

For Nordstream two, the US blow it up. You need to get your news from the correct source, such as Tucker Carlson, Gray Zone or Glenn Beck. As for the status in Ukraine. A good source is Viktor Orbane, the Hungarian PM. He knows that the war in Ukraine is over and the time for negotiation is now. Russia will keep what they have and Ukraine keep what they have. Russia now has the land Bridge to Crimea. Ukrainian lost a big chunk of it’s territory.

Are you for real quoting Tucker Carlson, Gray Zone and Viktor Orban.

Tell me, are you one of those toothless idiot who buy whatever TV tell him? And I thought you are a Chinese (Which I starting to doubt) and you should be smarter than that.

Tell me what US benefit from blowing up Nord Stream 2? There are no benefit for the US or EU for that matter, it literally worth less than the charge that blow that pipeline up.

US need to bring home the troop and focus on our borders. Stop the neocon warmongering.The US need to build up America first and stop politicians from joining the defense contractors boards.

Call your congressman or write letter to the white house for all I care.

says NATO and US who have 43 warships from 16 nations and 600,000 Israeli troops and still after 48 days couldn't take out a rag tag group in Gaza

and Gaza is 141 sq miles

First of all, I wouldn't advertise Gaza when it was levelled to the ground and killed maybe up to 30,000 already

Second of all, isn't it clear from day 1 Israeli objective is not to take Gaza but inflict maximum casualty?

And finally, tell me how this 3 Day SMO going for the Russian?

 

[Beny Karachun]

says NATO and US who have 43 warships from 16 nations and 600,000 Israeli troops and still after 48 days couldn't take out a rag tag group in Gaza

and Gaza is 141 sq miles

Lol

Ground invasion began 28 days ago, not 48 days ago.

US and NATO are uninvolved.

Israel fully mobilised with 450,000 reservists and 150,000 active duty soldiers but only around 25,000 soldiers are inside Gaza.

Israel already took Northen Gaza, which is where the majority of people live in, and more than 1.5 million Palestinians got displaced as a result of the war.

Hamas rocket fire has already been reduced to zero thanks to the fighting. Considering this is a mega scale Fallujah urban fight in a scale never seen before, while unfortunate and sad, Israel only suffered 70 casualties in the ground invasion. Meanwhile Palestinians have more than 20,000 dead, countless wounded etc.

Israel takes it slow to minimise casualties. You will see a fully conquered Gaza within a few months.

 

[EternalMortal]

Russia strategically lost a long time ago. All of their strategic goals have been defeated. They don’t even control all Donbas, another goal they have failed to achieve. They’ve lost enormous amounts of equipment and manpower with no end in sight.

They’ve achieved none of their strategic goals. None, Russia has lost.

Like I said. Delusional.

 

[F-22Raptor]

Like I said. Delusional.

The only delusional one is you. For Russia, it’s all been downhill since Hostomel. They’ve lost over 50% of territory they gained since Feb ‘22. They have a net gain of about 10% of Ukrainian territory. If you think 300-400K dead and wounded, over 13K pieces of heavy equipment lost and destroyed , NATO expansion, world pariah state, and being an economic nobody is worth 10% of Ukrainian territory then I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[EternalMortal]

The only delusional one is you. For Russia, it’s all been downhill since Hostomel. They’ve lost over 50% of territory they gained since Feb ‘22. They have a net gain of about 10% of Ukrainian territory. If you think 300-400K dead and wounded, over 13K pieces of heavy equipment lost and destroyed , NATO expansion, world pariah state, and being an economic nobody is worth 10% of Ukrainian territory then I don’t know what to tell you.

*Sigh* I hate dealing with NAFOtards b/c it's so obvious all your talking points come from Langley & Pentagon & you take it for granted that the rest of us are also as braindead as you to believe these claims.

-Russia has gained territory. Ukraine has failed to defend it. Whether it's 1%, 10% or 100% the Russians are the ones who are sitting on territory Ukraine claims. Ukraine is going to lose more territory let alone getting back Donbas or even Crimea. That's what happens when you mistake tactical retreats for strategic defeats.

-nonsense figures. Westoids love projecting. Russia has lost 200K max. 13K equipment is also highly questionable but sure. Let's not forget though that Russia is the one with the ability to pump out weapons & sustain mass production in a big war whereas the west on the other hand is running low on reserves.

-Ukraine got training, weapons, intel, advisors & boots on the ground (errr "volunteers") all from NATO. NATO prestige is in the mud right now. Ukraine loss is NATO's loss. Just ask Stoltenberg.

-only Finland is in NATO & Russians don't care much about them. It's Ukraine they care about. Sweden will get in once Erdogan feels like it.

-pariah state? Goodness, there's a limit to delusional fantasies. The whole 2nd & 3rd world is pro-russia. It's the west that has lost all credibility with this war.

-economic nobody? Try the 6th largest economy by PPP. Western economies are overinflated. Real goods are lower in %. Your sanctions not only did not have much effect but actually rebounded. Western economies already had weak growth & using resources for an arms buildup is going to make it worse. Meanwhile, Russia has absorbed sanctions & will be growing now.

Icing on the cake is that USA is now pushing Ukraine to negotiate. Now they can't even help both Ukraine & Israel at the same time. If that isn't a strategic defeat I don't know what is.

So what is all this worth to Russia? Well ask yourself what stopping soviet missiles in Cuba was worth to you that you risked nuclear war & multiply that by at least 3x. I know the average American isn't that great at math but do try & hopefully you'll have your answer.

 

[faithfulguy]

Are you for real quoting Tucker Carlson, Gray Zone and Viktor Orban.

Tell me, are you one of those toothless idiot who buy whatever TV tell him? And I thought you are a Chinese (Which I starting to doubt) and you should be smarter than that.

Tell me what US benefit from blowing up Nord Stream 2? There are no benefit for the US or EU for that matter, it literally worth less than the charge that blow that pipeline up.


Call your congressman or write letter to the white house for all I care.


First of all, I wouldn't advertise Gaza when it was levelled to the ground and killed maybe up to 30,000 already

Second of all, isn't it clear from day 1 Israeli objective is not to take Gaza but inflict maximum casualty?

And finally, tell me how this 3 Day SMO going for the Russian?

You would be the type that gets the news from the mainstream media as directed by military industrial complex. Just like any Americans that believe in the weapons of mass destruction in possession by Iraq so we need to invade. You can’t wait for America to engage in endless wars. As for me, I want peace.and for the media, I listen to the ones that tell the truth. Like Tucker Carlson,Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, and Kim Iversen. Who do you get your sources from, Rachel Maddow, Jake Tapper, Cenk, the Atlantic, Vice?