Vote fraud charges: Open ballot bags, see the fraud, says Imran

[Norwegian]

You have to present a legally sustainable case with evidence.

LOLZ. Lets assume I kill you and dump your body in my home based deep refrigerator. Now someone told your son that you were with me that day you were murdered, so he tells police that I'am the prime suspect without any evidence. What does police do? They go to court on mere "suspicion" that I am hiding something and get search warrant to check in my house. Now what should I do? I go to court and uses my right of stay order as police had not presented any evidence that I was with you that day you were murdered. And then your dead soul makes fun of illogical, irrational justice system you are cheering about here
Unless police breaks open my home and check my refrigerator on mere suspicion and wild accusations by your son, they may never find ANY evidence that I murdered you in the first place! Got it, you moronic fool?

 

[Viper0011.]

LOLZ. Lets assume I kill you and dump your body in my home based deep refrigerator.

You'll need to bring at least about 12 of you to even try to take me down, let alone kill me . The rest of the argument doesn't qualify for a response as you don't know basics of law.

 

[zaid butt]

if bags opened, pmln politics will be doomed forever !

please
open bags on which behalf
give proves in tribunals not just say wo sr pe chot lgi the kuch yad nahi

 

[Norwegian]

You'll need to bring at least about 12 of you to even try to take me down, let alone kill me . The rest of the argument doesn't qualify for a response as you don't know basics of law.

LOL. It was a hypothetical argument. But since you have an IQ of less than 90, so you are naturally incapable of cognitive reasoning at a higher level
What basics of law are you talking about? If someone goes missing, there are ALWAYS prime suspects. Police and other authorities are allowed to investigate on mere suspicion. They don't need EVIDENCE against you to check your residence. IK wants to open bags on mere suspicion as he has no evidence but he is quite confident that once bags are opened, evidence will be revealed as it happened in other constituencies.

 

[HughSlaman]

Let me assure you of something. I am as big of a third party here as you can ever find. But I'll speak and stand for the truth for the Pakistani people.
There is ONLY ONE propaganda team here and inside Pakistan. That's IK's. Reality is reality and you can't hide it. They've made an entire nation look like a fool with people getting injured and killed, country losing billions due to a lie based campaign (second in the modern history since the Hitler's WWII drama). So its not about anything else but what's right for the Pakistani people and for Pakistan itself. That has proven with time that its not IK. Running a 200 million population with these insanely disruptive, violent and threatening protests isn't helping and has caused tremendous amounts of damage. Your flags tell me where you live, could you ever see anyone doing this in the country you live in???? NO. So why are these system damaging activities allowed in Pakistan and none of this is helping ONE single poor Pakistani? The only benefactors are either the ethnic population behind IK due to ego of having a Pashtun in power, or people are making investments on IK's political

Proof of allegations... Answer By KAPTAAN...

I don't think anyone's questioning the fact Ik was injured. However when a legal court asks you about "give us witness names who told you about the so called "rigging""", the answer isn't I have amnesia because I was injured. The answer is:
Name 1, 2, 3, 4 and all. Not people who "thought" there was rigging in their sleep and woke up with a wet bed like you. People who can actually provide proof. Like ID cards, voter numbers and all, so the court can establish that the case has backing and it seems legit. Blaming proofs on memory loss and injuries doesn't help.

Polling bags are like dead bodies in the court of law. You are asking for someone to find the bags, unseal them and all.....and there has to be a legal reason.

OK,good: let's go with your idea of a "legal reason." You claim to be interested in truth, so please pay careful attention.

This is what I am trying to tell you: IK presented a legal reason to unseal the bags (which are not hard to find anyway).
IK's legal reason consisted of the fifteen eyewitnesses he presented in court, all of them testifying to having seen rigging occur. Here is a quote from the Express Tribune:

"During an election tribunal hearing on November 29, the judge had requested Imran to present witnesses for the alleged rigging in NA-122 in the May 2013 elections.

More than 15 witnesses were presented and their statements were heard."

NA-122 rigging: Imran records statement at election tribunal – The Express Tribune

Now IK is only claiming to have a legal reason to unseal the bags: he gave the evidence the court asked for, namely witnesses to the rigging. But IK is not claiming to have conclusive evidence that rigging occurred. For that, you need to unseal the bags.

There is no contradiction here: on the one hand, IK claims to have sufficient evidence for a a legal reason to unseal the bags. If somebody is not satisfied with that, and seems to want conclusive evidence that rigging occurred, then IK tells them "The evidence (i.e. conclusive evidence) is in the bags".

In the law, there are different levels of evidence. IK only claims to have a legal reason to unseal the bags, i.e.fifteen eyewitnesses to the rigging who appeared in court.
If you want a higher level of evidence, conclusive evidence that will settle the issue once and for all, obviously for that you need to unseal the bags.

Now, Orangzaib Sahib, do you agree that IK has a good legal reason to unseal the bags? Please do answer.

 

[Norwegian]

@HughSlaman: @orangzaib is an American, and like average American they seemed to have no or little perception of justice. No wonder why their once great country is in current unjustified financial mess!

 

[Viper0011.]

OK,good: let's go with your idea of a "legal reason." You claim to be interested in truth, so please pay careful attention.

This is what I am trying to tell you: IK presented a legal reason to unseal the bags (which are not hard to find anyway).
IK's legal reason consisted of the fifteen eyewitnesses he presented in court, all of them testifying to having seen rigging occur. Here is a quote from the Express Tribune:

Now, Orangzaib Sahib, do you agree that IK has a good legal reason to unseal the bags? Please do answer.

I am paying close attention and have been. Trust me on that. I might know what IK does after he leaves the late night party too (there is another after party AFTER the late night container party btw). So you aren't talking to someone who's smoking stuff he shouldn't be. I am real time with crap going on in Pakistan.

Next, yes, on PAPERS, he took 15 eye witnesses. But the eye witnesses weren't actual material witnesses. When the court asked DIRECTLY, are there witnesses who actually SAW the rigging first hand. The answer from IK was, no, I don't remember, I was injured on my head and I didn't remember names.....
Then, they asked do you have direct proofs of your allegations. His response was, proof is in the bags.

How did he not have one actual eye witness but "somehow", he knew the proofs are in the bags. Look man, I've been seeing this stupidity on here for many months. Its time to quit it. I don't have the time to continue on with a discussion that is so baseless but has resulted in billion of loss and many killed and injured. And you are here making a legal case that the IK himself couldn't present in front of the legal judges. Watch what's about to go down. IK's lost it and his political career will end shortly.

 

[Norwegian]

I am paying close attention and have been. Trust me on that. I might know what IK does after he leaves the late night party too (there is another after party AFTER the late night container party btw). So you aren't talking to someone who's smoking stuff he shouldn't be. I am real time with crap going on in Pakistan.

Next, yes, on PAPERS, he took 15 eye witnesses. But the eye witnesses weren't actual material witnesses. When the court asked DIRECTLY, are there witnesses who actually SAW the rigging first hand. The answer from IK was, no, I don't remember, I was injured on my head and I didn't remember names.....
Then, they asked do you have direct proofs of your allegations. His response was, proof is in the bags.

How did he not have one actual eye witness but "somehow", he knew the proofs are in the bags. Look man, I've been seeing this stupidity on here for many months. Its time to quit it. I don't have the time to continue on with a discussion that is so baseless but has resulted in billion of loss and many killed and injured. And you are here making a legal case that the IK himself couldn't present in front of the legal judges. Watch what's about to go down. IK's lost it and his political career will end shortly.

You are messed up in semantics. Point is simple; if PMLN didn't do rigging, why are they so afraid of vote-recount when IK is not?

 

[Viper0011.]

You are messed up in semantics. Point is simple; if PMLN didn't do rigging, why are they so afraid of vote-recount when IK is not?

You are so messed up with everything else. Why did IK have to get people killed and assault the Parliament when there could've been a peaceful solution??? Next, what's IK going to do when he proves incorrect with this rigging drama???
I want to see an answer here, clear and precise. If the rigging was to come true, the NS government has already said they'll resign.
What would IK do if he's wrong?? He's got many killed, hundreds injured for sheer stupidity. So he should offer something too, like I'll leave politics. I'd like to see how real of a man he is. So far he's lying and shown no character or real ethical leadership.

 

[HughSlaman]

I am paying close attention and have been. Trust me on that. I might know what IK does after he leaves the late night party too (there is another after party AFTER the late night container party btw). So you aren't talking to someone who's smoking stuff he shouldn't be. I am real time with crap going on in Pakistan.

Next, yes, on PAPERS, he took 15 eye witnesses. But the eye witnesses weren't actual material witnesses. When the court asked DIRECTLY, are there witnesses who actually SAW the rigging first hand. The answer from IK was, no, I don't remember, I was injured on my head and I didn't remember names.....
Then, they asked do you have direct proofs of your allegations. His response was, proof is in the bags.

@orangzaib

We agree then that IK presented more than 15 witnesses, and their statements were heard in court.

Now, you are claiming that this dialogue is what happened in court, and the court asked him "are there witnesses who actually SAW the rigging first hand." Do you have a credible source for this dialogue in court?

You have so far only presented a video of IK talking to the media; one reporter asked him the stupid question 'Why haven't you given evidence?", (stupid because IK had already presented more than 15 witnesses whose statements were heard in court) and IK rightly put him in his place, to the delight of the crowd, by saying that "the evidence is in the bags, why don't you open them?"

Please do give me a source for what you say happened in court. Not videos of IK talking to reporters.

 

[Norwegian]

You are so messed up with everything else. Why did IK have to get people killed and assault the Parliament when there could've been a peaceful solution??? Next, what's IK going to do when he proves incorrect with this rigging drama???

BS. It was Qadri's men that did all that. IK's dharna had mostly women and children participants. Also they moved towards PM House not Parliament House, the real source of power. Stop fooling around

I want to see an answer here, clear and precise. If the rigging was to come true, the NS government has already said they'll resign.

How? Someone gotta make this decision, an impartial investigation committee headed by SC?

What would IK do if he's wrong?? He's got many killed, hundreds injured for sheer stupidity. So he should offer something too, like I'll leave politics. I'd like to see how real of a man he is. So far he's lying and shown no character or real ethical leadership.

So government is not killing innocents but IK? LOLZ

 

[TankMan]

I am paying close attention and have been. Trust me on that. I might know what IK does after he leaves the late night party too (there is another after party AFTER the late night container party btw). So you aren't talking to someone who's smoking stuff he shouldn't be. I am real time with crap going on in Pakistan.

Next, yes, on PAPERS, he took 15 eye witnesses. But the eye witnesses weren't actual material witnesses. When the court asked DIRECTLY, are there witnesses who actually SAW the rigging first hand. The answer from IK was, no, I don't remember, I was injured on my head and I didn't remember names.....
Then, they asked do you have direct proofs of your allegations. His response was, proof is in the bags.

How did he not have one actual eye witness but "somehow", he knew the proofs are in the bags. Look man, I've been seeing this stupidity on here for many months. Its time to quit it. I don't have the time to continue on with a discussion that is so baseless but has resulted in billion of loss and many killed and injured. And you are here making a legal case that the IK himself couldn't present in front of the legal judges. Watch what's about to go down. IK's lost it and his political career will end shortly.

I might know what IK does after he leaves the late night party too (there is another after party AFTER the late night container party btw).

Wild allegations much? Looks like you've been taking lessons from the same Mubashir Luqman you keep condemning.

Next, yes, on PAPERS, he took 15 eye witnesses. But the eye witnesses weren't actual material witnesses. When the court asked DIRECTLY, are there witnesses who actually SAW the rigging first hand.

Right, so let me get this straight - witnesses don't count unless they were 'actual material witnesses'. What is your criteria for an 'actual material witness'? And what do you consider 'seeing' the rigging?
Because if you want video evidence of rigging taking place, there you go:

If you want a statement from someone who directly witnessed the rigging, there:

Even this much evidence should be enough to get the votes examined and investigated and this is not even a fraction of the evidence available.

How did he not have one actual eye witness but "somehow", he knew the proofs are in the bags

So now fifteen is less than one? More evidence:
Rigging: 49 polling stations across Pakistan received over 100pc turnout - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Spoiler: more evidence

Rigging Galore!
Rigging Galore; dhandla in NA 154 proven !

Rigging proved in PP 147

Worst Rigging of PMLN exposed yet again
ECP terminates PML-N MPA’s membership – The Express Tribune

There is absolutely no way you can deny rigging took place. There is absolutely no way you can deny an investigation is required and justified. No way except lying.

 

[Viper0011.]

BS. It was Qadri's men that did all that. IK's dharna had mostly women and children participants. Also they moved towards PM House not Parliament House, the real source of power. Stop fooling around
How? Someone gotta make this decision, an impartial investigation committee headed by SC?

So government is not killing innocents but IK? LOLZ

Answer me, don't run away, you are dodging the main question. So it rigging is true, the NS government has already said that they'll resign (if its true the way IK accuses to).
If its false....what does IK do? He's gotten people killed, billions lost and created a terrible environment in the country....What would he do? He should be a man and say I'll quit politics at the LEAST as lied to everyone. So tell us what IK would do when he's wrong in this case??

 

[Norwegian]

So it rigging is true, the NS government has already said that they'll resign (if its true the way IK accuses to).
If its false....what does IK do? He's gotten people killed, billions lost and created a terrible environment in the country....What would he do? He should be a man and say I'll quit politics at the LEAST as lied to everyone. So tell us what IK would do when he's wrong in this case??

IK's political career would be over if he was proven wrong in judicial inquiry into elections. Any idea why he is taking that big risk unless he knows he is right?

 

[Viper0011.]

Wild allegations much? Looks like you've been taking lessons from the same Mubashir Luqman you keep condemning.


Right, so let me get this straight - witnesses don't count unless they were 'actual material witnesses'. What is your criteria for an 'actual material witness'? And what do you consider 'seeing' the rigging?

There is absolutely no way you can deny rigging took place. There is absolutely no way you can deny an investigation is required and justified. No way except lying.

Material witness is who can describe with proofs how the rigging or any crime happened. Eye witness meaning they can credential the issue. I saw the victim drinking coffee last nigth before they got hit by a truck, isn't a material witness. A material witness is: "I saw the victim walking, I saw the truck tag number XXXX11122 moving forward and it hit her and the driver ran away, here's the truck's tag number I noted with a description of the driver"

Answer me, don't run away, you are dodging the main question. So it rigging is true, the NS government has already said that they'll resign (if its true the way IK accuses to).
If its false....what does IK do? He's gotten people killed, billions lost and created a terrible environment in the country....What would he do? He should be a man and say I'll quit politics at the LEAST as lied to everyone. So tell us what IK would do when he's wrong in this case??