US’ Hong Kong law 'piece of waste paper' – China

[powastick]

Us " crazy religion believers" happen to not believe in dictatorships that oppress it's own people. If mainland Chinese all support the CCP, why do you feel the need to block and censor the internet? Open up Google, Facebook, and all the other blocks you have. After all, if everyone there loves the CCP, you would not have the need to censor them. Or are you just flat scared of the consequences?

Yep, those crazy people whom you paid to overthrow governments. Don't remember the mujaheddin in Afganistan? Operation Timber Sycamore for ISIS. The only reason Malaysia never censored is because it was a pre-condition that the west imposed here, cause to protect freedom of "information" or shall I say freedom of "FAKE NEWS".

https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

Probably Malaysia is the next target. Malaysian are dumb shit anyway, installing a government hostile to China would benefit greatly to the US to contain China.

 

[TexasJohn]

And what does this have to do with Hong King and the topic we were discussing?

 

[powastick]

Of course its relevant, US is willing to do what it takes to contain China. Hong Kong is just the start. 3rd World Countries leadership are not stupid, they know what the US did during the Cold War. Battlegrounds will be fought outside China region, Malaysia is an easy prime target. US will not care about the consequences as long they stay relevant.

 

[TexasJohn]

Why do you say Malaysia? asking....

 

[beijingwalker]

Us " crazy religion believers" happen to not believe in dictatorships that oppress it's own people. If mainland Chinese all support the CCP, why do you feel the need to block and censor the internet? Open up Google, Facebook, and all the other blocks you have. After all, if everyone there loves the CCP, you would not have the need to censor them. Or are you just flat scared of the consequences?

Hong Kong still battling but China has won the war

By Ethan Epstein - The Washington Times - Sunday, November 3, 2019

The so-called battle for Hong Kong is still raging. Over the weekend, the capitalist entrepot witnessed its 22nd straight week of protests against Beijing’s heavy hand.

While the demonstrations are both smaller and more violent than when they first erupted five months ago to protest a law (now withdrawn) that would have allowed extraditions from Hong Kong to Mainland China — this weekend’s flare-up saw numerous stores smashed and even a stabbing in a shopping mall — their longevity has been extraordinary.

In 1989, Tiananmen Square had been occupied for barely a month when the tanks rolled in. Other mass movements across the world have fizzled in a matter of weeks as protesters were suppressed, placated or simply grew bored.


Hong Kong’s defiant spirit — its will to battle — is remarkable. But the war is over. And China won.

Five months ago, the Hong Kong protests looked to many like a genuine challenge to Beijing, one that could shake the foundations of Communist rule. The extraordinary mass rallies that characterized the beginning of the movement, with roughly 1 million people taking to the streets in a city of only 7 million, were by far the most profound challenge to the Chinese Communist Party since 1989.

China could not risk contagion, and many agreed it would ultimately send in the army to put down the protests, lest they spread to cities in the mainland.

In a classic episode of “The Simpsons,” Mr. Burns is booed mercilessly at a film festival, only to be reassured by his assistant Smithers that the crowd was really screaming “boo-urns,” not “boo.”

No, this has nothing to do with President Trump at Saturday’s UFC fights. Rather, as protests broke out in Hong Kong, panicky, unintentionally comical pieces appeared in Communist-run media organs like the China Daily claiming to credulous domestic audiences that the Hong Kong protesters were actually coming out in favor of the Beijing regime.

Such laughable propaganda suggested a regime that was very, very nervous.

Beijing was abandoned early on.)

A perusal through my WeChat account tells the tale. WeChat, owned by Chinese conglomerate Tencent, is both a chat app and a social network — Chinese users post photographs, memes and status updates alongside their text message conversations. And among my many Mainland contacts on WeChat, sentiment is universally hostile to Hong Kong. My feed is filled with condemnations of the “vandals” and “rioters” in Hong Kong.

Note that many of these WeChat contacts fit the profile of those who we might expect to be on the side of the protesters. Many were educated abroad, have advanced degrees, and work in professional fields. Yet on the Hong Kong question they are as nationalistic as their Little Red Book-clutching ancestors.

Others with deep networks in China report similar among their friends and acquaintances. Meanwhile, many Chinese living abroad have staged (actually) pro-Beijing demonstrations in dozens of cities outside China.

Hong Kong, in other words, is isolated.

Beijing may not have pacified the city itself, but it has eliminated the far more dangerous possibility of protests spreading. The 1989 student movement, by contrast, may largely be remembered for the atrocities that occurred in and around Tiananmen Square in Beijing, but there were pro-democracy protests in dozens of cities across the country.

Today, rather than send in the PLA and rerun a “tank man”-style atrocity, Beijing appears willing to let the demonstrations continue. Beijing even celebrated the nation’s 70th anniversary in grand style Oct. 1 in Beijing while continuing to let Hong Kong smolder. But this is in fact evidence of Hong Kong’s weakness as opposed to its strength.

Hong Kong simply doesn’t matter to China like it used to. In 1997, when Hong Kong was handed over from the United Kingdom to the People’s Republic, its economy represented some 20% of total Chinese gross domestic product. Hong Kong was also a crucial gateway for foreign investment into China.

Today, Hong Kong’s GDP represents less than 3% of China’s total GDP. Foreign investment has poured into the mainland, overflying Hong Kong entirely. Shanghai’s stock market, which didn’t even exist before the 1990s, now boasts a larger market capitalization than Hong Kong’s. It was reported last week that Hong Kong is, in fact, in recession — but there’s no sign that the rest of the country will follow.

The courageous Hong Kong protest movement will continue to irritate and embarrass Beijing. But fundamentally, it won’t threaten it.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/nov/3/hong-kong-still-battling-but-china-has-won-the-war/

 

[TexasJohn]

Your article pre-dates the Hong Kong election. That was a game changer... also same author had this to say:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/nov/17/under-xi-jinpings-leadership-china-is-losing-frien/
‘How to Lose Friends and Alienate People” is not just the name of the English journalist Toby Young’s memoir. It’s also an apt description of Chinese foreign policy under President Xi Jinping.

China has only one official treaty ally and it’s not necessarily one you would want as a friend: North Korea. It also maintains close ties with Pakistan, though the two are not bound by treaty.

But in the early part of this century, back when Beijing spoke incessantly of pursuing a “peaceful rise,” it did a good job of fostering closer relations with multiple foreign powers. It built deep economic networks across Southeast Asia, Africa, and even South America, hardly Beijing’s backyard. The advent of pricey soft-power initiatives like “Confucius Institutes” — the hundreds of schools within schools set up across universities and high schools worldwide to promote a Beijing-friendly worldview — demonstrated that Beijing was serious about influencing global opinion not just through televised parades of goose-stepping soldiers and ICBMs, but also happier times like dumpling-making classes and Mandarin lessons.
Under Mr. Xi, who has been in office since 2012, things have changed. Mr. Xi embarked on a ferocious crackdown domestically, quashing dissent and stressing party discipline — on a recent trip to Beijing, a middle-ranking Communist Party member showed me the 20 minute lesson on “Xi Jinping thought” that is zapped to his smartphone every morning that is mandatory that he complete. And abroad, China’s bellicose foreign policy — threatening Taiwan; expanding its reach in the South China Sea; punishing neighboring democracies like South Korea for taking decisions that don’t meet its approval — have badly hurt China’s image.

According to a Pew Research Center poll from earlier this year, China has grown deeply unpopular among its neighbors and Western democracies. Eighty-five percent of Japanese have a negative view of China. So do 63% of South Koreans, 57% of Australians, and 54% of Filipinos. Seventy percent of Swedes have a negative view of China, as do 62% of the French, 58% of the Dutch, and 57% of Italians. In Canada, meanwhile, China is viewed negatively by fully two-thirds of the population.
Perhaps needless to say, Beijing is not exactly popular in Hong Kong these days either. And while technically the capitalist entrepot is not a “foreign policy” issue for Beijing, Hong Kong is of course a distinct administrative region, governed separately from the mainland.

The U.S. is no exception to this global trend. Sixty percent of Americans take a dim view of China, and Beijing is now woefully unpopular across the entire political spectrum.

 

[beijingwalker]

Your article pre-dates the Hong Kong election. That was a game changer... also same author had this to say:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/nov/17/under-xi-jinpings-leadership-china-is-losing-frien/
‘How to Lose Friends and Alienate People” is not just the name of the English journalist Toby Young’s memoir. It’s also an apt description of Chinese foreign policy under President Xi Jinping.

China has only one official treaty ally and it’s not necessarily one you would want as a friend: North Korea. It also maintains close ties with Pakistan, though the two are not bound by treaty.

But in the early part of this century, back when Beijing spoke incessantly of pursuing a “peaceful rise,” it did a good job of fostering closer relations with multiple foreign powers. It built deep economic networks across Southeast Asia, Africa, and even South America, hardly Beijing’s backyard. The advent of pricey soft-power initiatives like “Confucius Institutes” — the hundreds of schools within schools set up across universities and high schools worldwide to promote a Beijing-friendly worldview — demonstrated that Beijing was serious about influencing global opinion not just through televised parades of goose-stepping soldiers and ICBMs, but also happier times like dumpling-making classes and Mandarin lessons.
Under Mr. Xi, who has been in office since 2012, things have changed. Mr. Xi embarked on a ferocious crackdown domestically, quashing dissent and stressing party discipline — on a recent trip to Beijing, a middle-ranking Communist Party member showed me the 20 minute lesson on “Xi Jinping thought” that is zapped to his smartphone every morning that is mandatory that he complete. And abroad, China’s bellicose foreign policy — threatening Taiwan; expanding its reach in the South China Sea; punishing neighboring democracies like South Korea for taking decisions that don’t meet its approval — have badly hurt China’s image.

According to a Pew Research Center poll from earlier this year, China has grown deeply unpopular among its neighbors and Western democracies. Eighty-five percent of Japanese have a negative view of China. So do 63% of South Koreans, 57% of Australians, and 54% of Filipinos. Seventy percent of Swedes have a negative view of China, as do 62% of the French, 58% of the Dutch, and 57% of Italians. In Canada, meanwhile, China is viewed negatively by fully two-thirds of the population.
Perhaps needless to say, Beijing is not exactly popular in Hong Kong these days either. And while technically the capitalist entrepot is not a “foreign policy” issue for Beijing, Hong Kong is of course a distinct administrative region, governed separately from the mainland.

The U.S. is no exception to this global trend. Sixty percent of Americans take a dim view of China, and Beijing is now woefully unpopular across the entire political spectrum.

We are talking about mainland Chinese support the government, over 1 billion people , one fifth of the world total population, which has nothing to do with Hong kong election.

 

[kankan326]

It's not like the US will win over China anyway even without HK.

And it's a bizarre thing to say that the CCP won a score in China. China is effectively a one-party state governed by the CCP, with or without the HK issue they are not going to get overthrown.

You don't know how Chinese view to the CCP has changed in recent years. Just 10 years ago, the majority Chinese netizens were pro democracy. Poeple liked to indirectly mock CCP on forums. But now the majority are on the CCP side. This is big change. You can find this change from the case that Chinese people voluntarily boycott NBA.

Us " crazy religion believers" happen to not believe in dictatorships that oppress it's own people. If mainland Chinese all support the CCP, why do you feel the need to block and censor the internet? Open up Google, Facebook, and all the other blocks you have. After all, if everyone there loves the CCP, you would not have the need to censor them. Or are you just flat scared of the consequences?

Let's make things clear. Facebook, Google are not normal apps. They are American government tools. We know what nasty role facebook, Twitter had played in Xinjiang 7.5 riot and Syria civil war. Why on the earth banning these evil tools represent oppressing its own people? Each year there are 100 million Chinese going abroad. Chinese government always opens the door for its people. The CCP is never afraid of its people seeing outside world with their eyes.

 

[Mista]

You don't know how Chinese view to the CCP has changed in recent years. Just 10 years ago, the majority Chinese netizens were pro democracy. Poeple liked to indirectly mock CCP on forums.

Yeah, but so what?

I've read them many years ago, but so what?

The average Chinese on the internet can be pro-democracy and mock the CCP, but so what?

There are Chinese netizens who complained about high property prices more than 10 years ago, but so what?

There are also many Chinese netizens who disagreed with Xi on removing term limits, but so what?

The reality is that the CCP will continue to govern China, whether Chinese netizens are pro-democracy or not, or whether you like it or not. That fact on the ground won't change and China won't democratize, with or without the HK issue.

 

[kankan326]

Yeah, but so what?

I've read them many years ago, but so what?

The average Chinese on the internet can be pro-democracy and mock the CCP, but so what?

There are Chinese netizens who complained about high property prices more than 10 years ago, but so what?

There are also many Chinese netizens who disagreed with Xi on removing term limits, but so what?

The reality is that the CCP will continue to govern China, whether Chinese netizens are pro-democracy or not, or whether you like it or not. That fact on the ground won't change and China won't democratize, with or without the HK issue.

Don't talk "many Chinese blabal". China has big population and only tiny part of it is "many".
I'm talking about the mainstream Chinese attitude to CCP is turning to supporting it. I don't think CCP would still be able to control the country if its people all think and act like HKers. HK government is still stable because China backs it. No one backs CCP if ordinary Chinese hate CCP so much.

"So what"? It really matters for CCP to have its people's full support. That's why Chinese government has been so calm and confident when dealing with trade war and HK issues.

 

[Mista]

Don't talk "many Chinese blabal". China has big population and only tiny part of it is "many".

You're the one who claimed that 'the majority Chinese netizens were pro democracy' 10 years ago. I'm quoting you.

Just 10 years ago, the majority Chinese netizens were pro democracy.

I'm simply telling you it doesn't matter whether it's the majority or the minority, the CCP will continue to govern China. For that it's bizarre to say that the CCP 'scored a point', as if anything have changed.

I don't think CCP would still be able to control the country if its people all think and act like HKers.

You're right, and that's exactly my point. You guys aren't HKers. What's there for the CCP to 'score a point'?

 

[kankan326]

You're the one who claimed that 'the majority Chinese netizens were pro democracy' 10 years ago. I'm quoting you.



I'm simply telling you it doesn't matter whether it's the majority or the minority, the CCP will continue to govern China. For that it's bizarre to say that the CCP 'scored a point', as if anything have changed.

I said CCP would lose its rule in China if Chinese hate it the way like Hongkongers. The fact is, Chinese never hated CCP so much even in 10 years ago. And let's say 10 years ago if the situation went worse it may get to the level of HK. But fortunately for CCP this did not happen and it is now going to the oppsite. It's a score for CCP

 

[Mista]

let's say 10 years ago if the situation went worse it may get to the level of HK.

Let's just say you're naive. The CCP survived the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. You think their rule will be threatened by pro-democracy protests? You will be put down long before that happens.

 

[kankan326]

Let's just say you're naive. The CCP survived the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. You think their rule will be threatened by pro-democracy protests? You will be put down long before that happens.

Great Leap and Cultural Revolution happened when China was a closed scociety. Very different from now. As I said every year there are 100 million Chinese going abroad now. We support CCP now because we are less informative. On the contary we are not brainwashed by west propaganda.

 

[Mista]

We support CCP now because we are less informative.