UNHCR looks at the economic contribution of Afghan refugees in Pakistan

[pakistani342]

Article here, excerpts below:

KARACHI, Pakistan, January 10 (UNHCR) – Marjan belies the common perception that Afghan refugees are a burden on Pakistan's economy. The petite mother of five toils from dawn till dusk at a garbage dump on the edge of Karachi, sorting out paper and plastic bags that can be recycled.

"The smell is unbearable and this is very dirty work, but what choices do I have?," she said, adding: "This garbage earns me enough to feed my family." The refugee, who fled from her home in north-east Afghanistan's rugged Badakhshan province 11 years ago, makes 250 Pakistan rupees (US$3) a day from the owner of the sorting depot, who is also an Afghan exile.

---> I wonder if her life would be more dignified in her native Afghanistan. No humans should have to live like this
---> Perhaps to much to ask but five kids -- the lack of family planning will sink both Afghanistan, Pakistan.

...

"Teenage Afghans come to Karachi from other towns and cities and send good money back home [in other parts of Pakistan] to support their families," revealed Sharif, an Afghan refugee who makes between 25,000 and 30,000 rupees a month from his business.

...

Pakistan hosts around 1.6 million registered Afghan refugees, including 80,000 in Karachi. Around 7 per cent of them earn a living as daily labourers in a wide range of industries, according to government figures for 2006-2007.

 

[That Guy]

Living in Pakistan for over 30 years, I would sure as hell hope they're contributing to the economy. It's not the ones that have businesses, or jobs that are the problem; it's the ones that hate Pakistan and refuse to work, all the while rely on handouts from the UN that are the problem. You hate Pakistan so much? Go back to Afghanistan, the place that you love.

On a side note, I think Pakistan could do with giving Afghans who're contributing to society, a way to get citizenship. I've always advocated a similar program to the foreign legion of France, as a way to get those poor Afghans that don't want to go home, and have lived in Pakistan far too long, to gain citizenship quickly. All this, and basic immigration reforms.

 

[Kharral]

I know it's not a popular thing to say these days but it's appalling that kids born & bred in pakistan are being told now that they have to leave this country for political correctness. Terrorism isn't an invention or the sole work of afghans.
Afghans are being made a scapegoat for Pakistans current situation. They are as productive as any other section of the society.
The harsh truth is that the state of pakistan has failed as successive governments since Zia have done nothing about the core issue of education, health, the alarming rate of population increase & all the rest that would have given a different outcome.
It's a tragedy that the traditionally generous people of Indus have come to this.

 

[OTTOMAN]

All problem started, when Zardari started to give NIC and passports to northern alliance.
It is time to cancel all ID's issued by Rehman Malik, being interior minister.

 

[pakistani342]

I know it's not a popular thing to say these days but it's appalling that kids born & bred in pakistan are being told now that they have to leave this country for political correctness. Terrorism isn't an invention or the sole work of afghans.
Afghans are being made a scapegoat for Pakistans current situation. They are as productive as any other section of the society.
The harsh truth is that the state of pakistan has failed as successive governments since Zia have done nothing about the core issue of education, health, the alarming rate of population increase & all the rest that would have given a different outcome.
It's a tragedy that the traditionally generous people of Indus have come to this.

The obvious question is that why don't rich countries such as the UK make room for them?

I am sure Afghan refugees would take the UK over Pakistan any day.

 

[Kharral]

There are loads of afghan refugees in Europe claiming asylum.
Most of whom will eventually be granted the leave to stay here as a lot of them already have.
In fact the probability of an afghan refugee finding the leave to remain here is so good that our own Pakistani nationals have claimed asylum posing as afghans.
Pakistan & Iran are Afghanistans neighbours & hence the over whelming majority of the refugees would naturally cross over to find shelter & plz remember that these refugees are registered by UN.
Millions of refugees from Africa, Middle East & Asia have found shelter all over Europe including UK.
But what concerns me the most is the failure of our state to formulate such policies that would have prevented the scapegoating & racial discrimination that we see now.
Who next after the afghans ???
I hope u realise that there is no shortage of crisis of both social & political nature.

 

[Zibago]

Yeah its thousand in UK vs millions in Pakistan

 

[Kharral]

Yeah but Pakistan is next door to Afghanistan

 

[pakistani342]

There are loads of afghan refugees in Europe claiming asylum.
Most of whom will eventually be granted the leave to stay here as a lot of them already have.
In fact the probability of an afghan refugee finding the leave to remain here is so good that our own Pakistani nationals have claimed asylum posing as afghans.
Pakistan & Iran are Afghanistans neighbours & hence the over whelming majority of the refugees would naturally cross over to find shelter & plz remember that these refugees are registered by UN.
Millions of refugees from Africa, Middle East & Asia have found shelter all over Europe including UK.
But what concerns me the most is the failure of our state to formulate such policies that would have prevented the scapegoating & racial discrimination that we see now.
Who next after the afghans ???
I hope u realise that there is no shortage of crisis of both social & political nature.

Please, rhetoric for another time: let's talk, facts, numbers, ratios.

How many Afghans, if I may ask, has the UK given refugee status to?

Pakistan currently has about 3 million

Now let's compare say GDPs (real or nominal will do)?

You can see how another subject of the crown is treating them: Australia. If the folks who are granted some form of refugee status are sent to another island state ???

 

[Kharral]

Australia took about 3 million war affected immigrants after WW2 from all over the Europe & has since taken refugees from Vietnam, China, Sudan, Somalia, Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, East Timor & even from South American countries even though it's attitude to an extent has been racist.

Now the contribution of refugees to UK
Refugees have made a massive cultural, social & economic contribution to life in the UK in last 450 years.
From Dutch Protestants fleeing persecution in the Spanish Netherlands 1560s to the current day refugees from Syria.

Jews of Spanish & Portuguese origin were allowed to settle in England fleeing from Netherlands.

Some 100,000 French Protestants fled to Britain from 1685 to 1700. These people made a remarkable contribution to the social & economic life in UK. Their contribution to British society is still evident today. Seven of the 24 founding members of the Bank of England were these refugees. The first governor of Bank of England Sir John Houlbon was the son of such a refugee.

Roman Catholics & aristocracy fled the 1789 French Revolution & came to Britain.

1848 the year of revolutions made the royalists, socialists,republicans & liberals to seek refuge in UK fleeing from conflicts across the European mainland.
In subsequent years prominent political dissidents such as Karl Marx from Germany & Victor Hugo from France found refuge in UK.

From 1880 to 1914 tens of thousands of Jews fled Russian pogroms, Poland,Romania & Galicia & sought sanctuary in Britain. And guess what ?these refugees have left a legacy of economic contribution to the UK. Some of these people had suffered the appalling conditions of work & campaigned for social justice by setting up unions & getting involved in politics & others set up vast businesses from humble begging which are household names today.

250000 Belgians fled to UK during the First World War.

Some 4000 Basque refugee children fleeing the Spanish civil war arrived in UK. One of these children is the conservative MP, Michael Portillo.

Some 50000 people fleeing nazi Germany, Austria & Czechoslovakia were admitted in 1930s. Again these people made a remarkable contribution to life in UK from setting up electrical industry to music schools.

Some 250,000 polish refugees settled in UK from 1939 to 1950.

More than 80000 thousand refugees fleeing Soviet Union found refuge in UK during Cold War.

Some 28000 Asians expelled by Idi Amin arrived in UK as refugees.

Some 3000 Chileans arrived during 1973 to 1979.

Some 24000 Vietnamese refugees entered the UK under a resettlement program from 1975 to 1990.

Some 2500 Bosnians fled to UK from 1992 to 1996, while Germany accepted 300,000.

Some 4000 Kosovan refugees were given temporary protected status in the UK from 1995 to 1990.

The point is the institutions of the state have failed. The issues of education, health & population have been ignored to our own peril.
Finally is it morally or ethically right that a person born & bred in this country is a refugee because his parents were refugees & has stayed here for over 30 years ???

 

[pakistani342]

Australia took about 3 million war affected immigrants after WW2 from all over the Europe & has since taken refugees from Vietnam, China, Sudan, Somalia, Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, East Timor & even from South American countries even though it's attitude to an extent has been racist.

Now the contribution of refugees to UK
Refugees have made a massive cultural, social & economic contribution to life in the UK in last 450 years.
From Dutch Protestants fleeing persecution in the Spanish Netherlands 1560s to the current day refugees from Syria.

Jews of Spanish & Portuguese origin were allowed to settle in England fleeing from Netherlands.

Some 100,000 French Protestants fled to Britain from 1685 to 1700. These people made a remarkable contribution to the social & economic life in UK. Their contribution to British society is still evident today. Seven of the 24 founding members of the Bank of England were these refugees. The first governor of Bank of England Sir John Houlbon was the son of such a refugee.

Roman Catholics & aristocracy fled the 1789 French Revolution & came to Britain.

1848 the year of revolutions made the royalists, socialists,republicans & liberals to seek refuge in UK fleeing from conflicts across the European mainland.
In subsequent years prominent political dissidents such as Karl Marx from Germany & Victor Hugo from France found refuge in UK.

From 1880 to 1914 tens of thousands of Jews fled Russian pogroms, Poland,Romania & Galicia & sought sanctuary in Britain. And guess what ?these refugees have left a legacy of economic contribution to the UK.

My question is how many Afghan refugees have been taken in (clearly in the past few decades -- say starting from 1980)?
..by the UK?
..by Australia?

How do the GDPs of the UK and Australia compare with that of Pakistan?

Verbatim copy-pasts from encyclopedia pages are really not necessary -- summary/estimates plus references will do.

 

[Kharral]

UNHCR:Facts and Figures on Refugees

Graphics: Europe's asylum seekers - BBC News

The UK was practically bankrupt after world war 2 but it still accepted refugees from Europe.
It really is a shame when an educated person like urself scapegoats a group of people instead of the institutions of the state. Are these people really a bigger issue than the failure of institutions of the state ???
The GDP figures would have been relevant if the state of pakistan was providing education, health & other services to these people. I don't know about Australia but the UK provides monetary help to any 1 having a registered refugee status along with health, education & transport services free of cost as these people are not allowed to work. Asylum appeals take years to clear while the state picks up the bill & then there is probability of a claimant taking up permanent residence here & right fully not being a refugee subject to deportation after 30 years & please remember it's just not afghans that are claiming refuge in UK, where as its only the afghans who are refugees in Pakistan.
Practically afghans are as productive as any other section of the society. They pay as much tax as any other section of society as there is hardly any form of direct taxation in the country. Is a child going to a school a burden on any country or society ?

 

[pakistani342]

UNHCR:Facts and Figures on Refugees

Graphics: Europe's asylum seekers - BBC News

The UK was practically bankrupt after world war 2 but it still accepted refugees from Europe.
It really is a shame when an educated person like urself scapegoats a group of people instead of the institutions of the state. Are these people really a bigger issue than the failure of institutions of the state ???
The GDP figures would have been relevant if the state of pakistan was providing education, health & other services to these people. I don't know about Australia but the UK provides monetary help to any 1 having a registered refugee status along with health, education & transport services free of cost as these people are not allowed to work. Asylum appeals take years to clear while the state picks up the bill & then there is probability of a claimant taking up permanent residence here & right fully not being a refugee subject to deportation after 30 years & please remember it's just not afghans that are claiming refuge in UK, where as its only the afghans who are refugees in Pakistan.
Practically afghans are as productive as any other section of the society. They pay as much tax as any other section of society as there is hardly any form of direct taxation in the country. Is a child going to a school a burden on any country or society ?

Again the questions was how many Afghans has the UK given refuge to?
Not educated Bosnians or allowed Polish skilled workers to work there, etc.

How many Afghan refugees?

What is the GDP ratio?

Even the UNHCR claims that the Afghan refugees place and heavy burden on Pakistan -- I guess your analysis trumps UNHCR.

 

[Kharral]

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migra...rft-table-3---population-by-cob-datasheet.xls

What was the literacy rate of pakistan in 1978 & what is it now ??
We had over 30 years to educate & how many have we ??
What was our GDP in 1978 & what is it now ??
Same goes for the allocation of funds for health & education.

 

[pakistani342]

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migra...rft-table-3---population-by-cob-datasheet.xls

What was the literacy rate of pakistan in 1978 & what is it now ??
We had over 30 years to educate & how many have we ??
What was our GDP in 1978 & what is it now ??
Same goes for the allocation of funds for health & education.

Again:

My questions are:

1. How many Afghan refugees have been taken in (clearly in the past few decades -- say starting from 1980)?
..by the UK?
..by Australia?

2. How do the GDPs of the UK and Australia compare to Pakistan?

----

I know this is a bit below the belt, but in response to your earlier snide remark: It is remarkable that an educated person (I assume which you are) can't carry on a --> b to b --> c reasoning