Type 054C/D CDG vs Kolkata class destroyers

[Krate M]

I said these blogs are not trust worthy, why is it so hard to understand this point, I brought up a fake news(which I didn't know at the time, though suspected) to prove blogs are about as trust worth as a woman's age.

If you don't trust then why post. If that poster's information is false, prove it. Like I disproved your post. Don't post fake links. This reduces forum post quality.

 

[Shinigami]

Well India isn't exactly too bad at this, but you got a couple of things not to your advantage.

First the 054C was a experiment we had for about 10 years before we made the 054D, you didn't have that.

Our manufacturing and domestic industries are far more capable and thus it is also an advantage.


Mostly it's the build time, China started the 52D in early 2010s, while India early 2000s. The time difference is huge in this regard, due to the speed of our advances.


If you look closely, you can clearly see the radar and the VLS that I mentioned, the rest are a little hard to see and I can't provide proof so I won't use it as proof.



I said these blogs are not trust worthy, why is it so hard to understand this point, I brought up a fake news(which I didn't know at the time, though suspected) to prove blogs are about as trust worth as a woman's age.

this is where you are wrong.
1.india has been building warships since the 60s.
2.Kol. class is basically a heavy upgrade of the delhi class destroyers
3. this i belive is the 52d

 

[Genesis]

If you don't trust then why post. If that poster's information is false, prove it. Don't post fake links.

it's a nuclear sub, I can't prove it, nobody other than Chinese and American admirals can.

I posted tha fake link to show the trust worthiness of blog posts.

this is where you are wrong.
1.india has been building warships since the 60s.
2.Kol. class is basically a heavy upgrade of the delhi class destroyers

I mean the Kolkata was from the 2000s, while the 052D is from the 2010s, that's a pretty big difference when we are both not near the top at the time.


Delhi class isn't that great to tell you the truth. Soviet ships are ok at best at this point. Dehli class isn't 054C even you must agree, that experience is crucial.

 

[Krate M]

If people who have served in navy post that whether in a forum or blog, it carries weight. There are such people posting in other forums. So those people's comments can give a certain perspective.
I am pointing out your error. You can still quote that person and ask for the source and prove it to be false.
Instead you are debating the credibility of such posts, that too after you posted a known hoax. Why are you reducing your credibility and forum quality by doing so. Just ask that guy for his own source.

 

[Shinigami]

I mean the Kolkata was from the 2000s, while the 052D is from the 2010s, that's a pretty big difference when we are both not near the top at the time.


Delhi class isn't that great to tell you the truth. Soviet ships are ok at best at this point. Dehli class isn't 054C even you must agree, that experience is crucial.

wrong again. it was the design that started in the 2000s. the ship got commissioned this year. The K class like i said has the best techs of india, the west, israel and russia. and they look killer

delhi class destroyers are designed and made in india, not russia and from what i hear, they are pretty damn good

 

[Sahasranama]

This is part of it, if you are interested in the rest, you can google it yourself, it's rather easy to find.

“IAmA US Naval Officer who spent 5 days onboard an Indian Navy warship.” | September 11, 2011 | SmartWar.org

I have come across this post earlier and though a small part of the post is true, large parts of it is made up and is total nonsense.

Evidence? These two claims that I made are easily verified that's why I didn't go further into it, due to our secretive nature I cannot make cases for missiles, electronic system, design and "AEGIS," though if you do a little bit of research and understand a few things it's not hard to come to the same conclusion.

Missiles for one, we have the Russian advanced missile when we made the 4 DDG purchase, the whole point of the purchase at the time, and the missiles on our ships are definitely better according to naval admiral who teaches in the naval academy and pretty much ever other source, but the specifics are scarce and unreliable. So I didn't go into it.

As to electronic systems, Russians systems have been deemed not good enough back in 06, today we are an electronics giant, in both the latest tech and variety. Civilian sector is the gate way to high end military tech as proven by US and wouldn't you know it, us.

Though these are hard to prove without a doubt.

In short all this is pure speculation and empty claims.

I know India can fire those missiles, but the 52D is very lean, why is that? Everything is in the VLS, every canister are the same size and can fire any missile, as we standardized every missile.

52D is a clear upgrade of 52C, the radar on 52D is much improved due to the shape, it's just a board, the reason for the shape of the 52C and Kolkata is cooling, that has not been worked out. 52D matches and exceeds the current Burkes in radar due to it being AESA and 2014. Though Americans still got one more trick up their sleeve in the Zumwalt.

Type 52 design is lean because ship design in India and China is not as advanced as those from the west. That is why both Indian and Chinese ships have a beam of 17 m while western ships have beam of 20+ m.

The reason that Chinese have not mounted their antenna on a greater heigh is that the chinese radar is far too heavy to be mounted at a height.

There is no point in spinning away such facts.

 

[Genesis]

I have come across this post earlier and though a small part of the post is true, large parts of it is made up and is total nonsense.

Yea, I explained this a million times, I'm not going to do it again, there's only two pages, read it if you are interested.

In short all this is pure speculation and empty claims.

You can take it however you want, I don't want to use evidence that are hard to prove for my point, so do whatever pleases you the most.

Type 52 design is lean because ship design in India and China is not as advanced as those from the west. That is why both Indian and Chinese ships have a beam of 17 m while western ships have beam of 20+ m.

The reason that Chinese have not mounted their antenna on a greater heigh is that the chinese radar is far too heavy to be mounted at a height.

There is no point in spinning away such facts.

Speak for yourself, China has electric propulsion for warships, indigenous ones, mostly because Ukraine and Russia don't have it and Western countries refuse to export, India doesn't.

Chinese ship building is number one by a mile, now in terms of weapons technology, we are still inferior to US and in terms of propulsion to the UK.

Though we have the advantage in missile tech, but not by much and certainly not enough to be a deal breaker.


You want to know what is heavy, check your radar, this is the American Zumwalt radar, any guesses on why it's that shape? Our radar's superiority to anything short of the American and maybe Japanese ones is not really up for debate, it's clear as day what's happening here.

If people who have served in navy post that whether in a forum or blog, it carries weight. There are such people posting in other forums. So those people's comments can give a certain perspective.
I am pointing out your error. You can still quote that person and ask for the source and prove it to be false.
Instead you are debating the credibility of such posts, that too after you posted a known hoax. Why are you reducing your credibility and forum quality by doing so. Just ask that guy for his own source.

we are just going to have to agree to disagree, I don't know how I can be more clear. If you must, ask someone to explain what I mean.

wrong again. it was the design that started in the 2000s. the ship got commissioned this year. The K class like i said has the best techs of india, the west, israel and russia. and they look killer

View attachment 140166

delhi class destroyers are designed and made in india, not russia and from what i hear, they are pretty damn good

The Delhi class clearly had Russian help or at least inspiration, you want to know how I know? Only the Russians jam that many missiles on one ship. They are not that good today, today's DDGs are all AEGIS ships, you do know why right.


As to designed in the 2000s, that's exactly what I said, in all my posts. This is getting ridicules, if you want to prove it's got the best the West has to offer, prove it. I know you can't cause I know what it has and I know what American's Burke and Zumwalt has as well as the Japanese and Korean AEGIS ships.

 

[Nexus]

Yea, I explained this a million times, I'm not going to do it again, there's only two pages, read it if you are interested.




You can take it however you want, I don't want to use evidence that are hard to prove for my point, so do whatever pleases you the most.



Speak for yourself, China has electric propulsion for warships, indigenous ones, mostly because Ukraine and Russia don't have it and Western countries refuse to export, India doesn't.

Chinese ship building is number one by a mile, now in terms of weapons technology, we are still inferior to US and in terms of propulsion to the UK.

Though we have the advantage in missile tech, but not by much and certainly not enough to be a deal breaker.


You want to know what is heavy, check your radar, this is the American Zumwalt radar, any guesses on why it's that shape? Our radar's superiority to anything short of the American and maybe Japanese ones is not really up for debate, it's clear as day what's happening here.

View attachment 141431


we are just going to have to agree to disagree, I don't know how I can be more clear. If you must, ask someone to explain what I mean.



The Delhi class clearly had Russian help or at least inspiration, you want to know how I know? Only the Russians jam that many missiles on one ship. They are not that good today, today's DDGs are all AEGIS ships, you do know why right.


As to designed in the 2000s, that's exactly what I said, in all my posts. This is getting ridicules, if you want to prove it's got the best the West has to offer, prove it. I know you can't cause I know what it has and I know what American's Burke and Zumwalt has as well as the Japanese and Korean AEGIS ships.

so u mean k class ships are outdated or 54c can handle these ships ?

 

[Nexus]

@Kiss_of_the_Dragon
@FaujHistorian
@C130
@Nihonjin1051,
@INDIC
your opinion ?

 

[Genesis]

so u mean k class ships are outdated or 54c can handle these ships ?

don't take it like that, outdated, what does that even mean today. It's a system vs system, rather than one ship vs another.

Kolkata class is very capable, it can be said to be close to Burke class, and surpass it in some respects.

But like I said it's not a street fight.

China has more experience and better tech in operating "AEGIS" destroyers, but that doesn't mean Kolkata is not important, it is.

52C also has problems, it's more or less about the same as Kolkata, I can tell you now, 52C plays a very important role in the Chinese navy, now and in the future.

 

[Nexus]

don't take it like that, outdated, what does that even mean today. It's a system vs system, rather than one ship vs another.

Kolkata class is very capable, it can be said to be close to Burke class, and surpass it in some respects.

But like I said it's not a street fight.

China has more experience and better tech in operating "AEGIS" destroyers, but that doesn't mean Kolkata is not important, it is.

52C also has problems, it's more or less about the same as Kolkata, I can tell you now, 52C plays a very important role in the Chinese navy, now and in the future.

thanks for your reply,
BTW in which field k class is superior to Burke class ?

 

[desimorty]

Hands down Kolkatta wins.
Its a more versatile dystrophy. ASW is superior compared to its peers, with 2 hele hangers and 4 very heavy torpedos which the 52 doesnt have either. Top it all off, 16 VLS brahmos! range 500 on high high. thats a beast of a warship. worth the weight.

 

[William Hung]

You guys should not compare the Kolkata and Type 052D to the US Arleigh Burke class or the Japanese Kongo class.

Both the Kolkata and 52D uses a newer generation AESA radar while the AB still uses a PESA radar. But it doesnt really matter, all three radars are good enough. What sets the AB class and Kongo apart is the AEGIS system as a whole. It is just crazy.

52D's radar detection range can supposedly reach 400km while the Kolkata is under 300km. But neither ship has any SAMs to reach that distance. 52D's HHQ-9
missiles can only engage Orion size plane at 200km max. and high flying fighter jets at under 170km range. Sea skimming cruise missiles can only be engaged at under 80km (these are based on the HQ-9 specs for the export market). Kolkata has shorter range and can only engage high flying targets (like fighter jets or cruise missiles) at under 100km, and shorter for sea skimming targets.

So both the 52D and Kolkata cannot engage any fighter jet firing AshMs at their stand off range (e.g. 180km). And both will have to sit around and wait until the sea skimming missiles come within 80km before it can be engaged.

The AB and Kongo are crazy. Their latest block SM-3 has a range well over 1000km against BM and can even shoot down satellites. The latest SM-6 has a range well over 200km and can even intercept low flying cruise missiles at that distance because it can receive guidance data from other sources like satellites and airborne radar.

As for the cooling system of the Kolkata AESA, that housing indicates air cooling. But here's the same exact radar on the Saar class. It can also be "flat" as a board like what Genesis said. So their liquid cooling system is good enough:

 

[mike2000]

Another dick measuring contest, cut the crap. Of course every country will say its battle ships/ products are the best. Lol no matter how hard one tries to convince the other, this won't change.
So what matters at the end is a country's self reliance and ability to meet its defence needs/sustain a prolonged war all by itself and establish a military industrial complex which benefits/boosts other sectors of its economy .
All other comparisons are secondary.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

You guys should not compare the Kolkata and Type 052D to the US Arleigh Burke class or the Japanese Kongo class.

Both the Kolkata and 52D uses a newer generation AESA radar while the AB still uses a PESA radar. But it doesnt really matter, all three radars are good enough. What sets the AB class and Kongo apart is the AEGIS system as a whole. It is just crazy.

52D's radar detection range can supposedly reach 400km while the Kolkata is under 300km. But neither ship has any SAMs to reach that distance. 52D's HHQ-9
missiles can only engage Orion size plane at 200km max. and high flying fighter jets at under 170km range. Sea skimming cruise missiles can only be engaged at under 80km (these are based on the HQ-9 specs for the export market). Kolkata has shorter range and can only engage high flying targets (like fighter jets or cruise missiles) at under 100km, and shorter for sea skimming targets.

So both the 52D and Kolkata cannot engage any fighter jet firing AshMs at their stand off range (e.g. 180km). And both will have to sit around and wait until the sea skimming missiles come within 80km before it can be engaged.

The AB and Kongo are crazy. Their latest block SM-3 has a range well over 1000km against BM and can even shoot down satellites. The latest SM-6 has a range well over 200km and can even intercept low flying cruise missiles at that distance because it can receive guidance data from other sources like satellites and airborne radar.

As for the cooling system of the Kolkata AESA, that housing indicates air cooling. But here's the same exact radar on the Saar class. It can also be "flat" as a board like what Genesis said. So their liquid cooling system is good enough:

View attachment 142045

We have HQ-19/26, so shooting down those LEO satellites is a piece of cake for us.