Turkish TFX Kaan VS KF-21 Boramae South Korea - Analysis

[Deino]

...

KAAN and KIZILELMA have their own agenda with indigenous TF-10.000 and TF-35.000 Turbofan Engines

we dont care about Chinese

And since I'm not a Chinese - while some of you constantly claim, the Chinese J-10C or even the WS-10C will be the only alternative if the West refuses its own high end types; as such you indeed care about Chinese - this attempted insult is irrelevant.

 

[MMM-E]

And since I'm not a Chinese - while some of you constantly claim, the Chinese J-10C or even the WS-10C will be the only alternative if the West refuses its own high end types; as such you indeed care about Chinese - this attempted insult is irrelevant.

The Chinese J-10C or even the WS-10C ? Official sources never said about it


Turkiye has its own agenda

-- to modernize 200 F-16s with OZGUR-2 upgrade
-- to develop TF-6.000 and TF-10.000 Turbofan Engines to power ANKA-3 and KIZILELMA
-- to develop TF-35.000 Turbofan Engine to power KAAN in 2032

 

[Faceless]

KAAN 360-degree situational awareness with 4 AESA Radars

You didn't even answer my question, I just want to read about DAS of KAAN and all you have blabbered about is HMDS, super cruise yada yada.
Just answer the ducking question, does KAAN have a electro optical DAS similar to AN/AAQ-37

 

[MMM-E]

You didn't even answer my question, I just want to read about DAS of KAAN and all you have blabbered about HMDS, super cruise yada yada.
Just answer the ducking question, does KAAN have a electro optical DAS similar to AN/AAQ-37

I answered your question ...


F-22 , KF-21 , J-20 lacks 360° situational awareness

F-35 360-degree situational awareness with DAS
KAAN 360-degree situational awareness with 4 AESA Radars


About KAAN
-- 360-degree situational awareness with 4 AESA Radars
-- Sensor fusion with EOTS , IRST with unique configuration
-- 360-degree vision with AI-enhanced battlefield awareness

-- BEOS/EOTS (Advanced optical Systems)
-- HMDS (Helmet Mounted Display System)



About F-35
The DAS provides 3 basic categories of functions in every direction simultaneously

-- Missile detection and tracking
-- Aircraft detection and tracking (situational awareness, IRST and air to air missile cueing)
-- Imagery for Cockpit displays and pilot night vision (imagery displayed onto the HMDS )

 

[Faceless]

I answered your question ...


F-22 , KF-21 , J-20 lacks 360° situational awareness

F-35 360-degree situational awareness with DAS
KAAN 360-degree situational awareness with 4 AESA Radars


About KAAN
-- 360-degree situational awareness with 4 AESA Radars
-- Sensor fusion with EOTS , IRST with unique configuration
-- 360-degree vision with AI-enhanced battlefield awareness

-- BEOS/EOTS (Advanced optical Systems)
-- HMDS (Helmet Display System) ...



About F-35
The DAS provides 3 basic categories of functions in every direction simultaneously

-- Missile detection and tracking (including launch point detection and countermeasure cueing)
-- Aircraft detection and tracking (situational awareness, IRST and air to air missile cueing)
-- Imagery for Cockpit displays and pilot night vision (imagery displayed onto the HMDS

I don't wanna know about F 35, F22, J 20 I wanna know about KAAN can't you for once give out proper details without comparing them to other fighters.

God, why am I even asking you, Hey @LegionnairE do you know anything about the DAS of KAAN.
According to what I have been able to decipher from @MMM-E wall of text it seems KAAN's DAS is going to be radar based like Su 57 instead of EO like F 35.

 

[MMM-E]

I don't wanna know about F 35, F22, J 20 I wanna know about KAAN can't you for once give out proper details without comparing them to other fighters.

God, who am I even asking to, Hey @LegionnairE do you know anything about the DAS of KAAN.
According to what I have been able to decipher from @MME wall of text it seems KAAN's DAS is going to be radar based like Su 57 instead of EO like F 35.

KAAN will have integrated System for 360-degree vision with AI-enhanced battlefield awareness

4 AESA Radars + BEOS/EOTS (Advanced optical Systems) + IRST combined

F35 uses EODAS ( EOTS+IRTS ) for 360-degree situational awareness
6 high-resolution infrared sensors

 

[LegionnairE]

God, why am I even asking you, Hey @LegionnairE do you know anything about the DAS of KAAN.

It will have 360 degree AESA radar coverage, that's what matters. How this data will be fused together and delivered to the pilot is another story, It is highly likely that we'll see F35-like technology refreshes throughout 2030ies and 40ies.

Why we went with 360 AESA radar coverage instead of something like EO DAS is another subject of debate

I just wish we received F-35s and had the opportunity to test both systems in action.

 

[Faceless]

It will have 360 degree AESA radar coverage, that's what matters how this data will be fused together and delivered to the pilot is another story, It is highly likely that we'll see F35-like technology refreshes throughout 2030ies and 40ies.

And how will this 360° coverage be achieved, (I mean what type of radars will be used and where will they be placed).
Will it be similar to Su 57's mix of side looking X band Radar and wingtip mounted L band Radar

 

[LegionnairE]

And how will this 360° coverage be achieved, (I mean what type of radars will be used).
Will it be similar to Su 57's L band Radar on wigtips

There will be side-facing aesa radars on each side of the cockpit and one rear facing one between the engines in the back from what I understand.

Yes Russians have a similiar system, although I don't know what radar frequency range ours will use.

 

[hyperman]

if Turkey do not change it political agenda at least in line with NATO and US interests

And what would those interests be? lol

I keep seeing these threats from western keyboard warriors and think tank OPed writers, but this is a two way street, They never accepted Turkey into NATO b/c they liked Turkey, infact the west has largely had animosity towards the Turks for centuries, even more so than their animosity towards the russians. No they brought Turkey in b/c of its strategic geographical importance in securing NATO's southern Flank and denying the Soviet Union access into the Mediterranean and war water ports.Granted there is no Soviet Union today, but the geography is still very much relevant.

They won't do shit to jeopardize that, outside of a significant escalation. Turks know this, its like the scene from Inglorious bastards, where Hans Landa screams at Aldo Raine that he will be shot for this, but he says, nah, more like chewed out, I've been chewed out before. lol

As for the F110, yes it would be a significant delay in production if they were embargoed, but its not like there are no off the shelf alternatives to this engine, namely the WS-10C or WS-15 or Al-41. its not a death sentence.

These embargoes are double edged, its not just a loss for Turkey, but a loss for the West as well, every action has a counterreaction, as you deplive Turkey, Turkey can deprive as well, not just in terms of sales losses, but with regards to access to strategic geography and cooperation in the region on matters. the neoliberal keyboard warriors seem to forget that part. Its not a master and dog on a least type relationship anymore, with the changing geopolitics and Turkey's own influence growing..

 

[Faceless]

There will be side-facing aesa radars on each side of the cockpit and one rear facing one between the engines in the back from what I understand.

Yes Russians have a similiar system, although I don't know what radar frequency range ours will use.

Why not go for a EO DAS system like the US - cost, technological complexity, different design philosophy or what?

 

[LegionnairE]

Why not go for a EO DAS system like the US - cost, technological complexity, different design philosophy or what?

I don't know what the thought process was, your guess is as good as mine, the power draw will be astronomic, I would much rather save some energy there and spend that on a laser countermeasure system but the current design is enormously ambitious as it is.

AESA might have seemed simpler knowing how to make GaN based T/R modules, etc.

I just want to say that it really fucking hurt to get kicked out of F35 project, testing that plane in the field and weighing pros and cons of that system could have yielded some valuable insight

 

[Faceless]

I don't know what the thought process was, your guess is as good as mine, the power draw will be astronomic, I would much rather save some energy there and spend that on a laser countermeasure system but the current design is enormously ambitious as it is.

AESA might have seemed simpler knowing how to make GaN based T/R modules, etc.

I just want to say that it really fucking hurt to get kicked out of F35 project, testing that plane in the field and weighing pros and cons of that system could have yielded some valuable insight

I don't think EO systems have that much power draw in comparison to radars but they do require more cooling, so I don't think that is the reason.

My guess would be EO based DAS would have been more complex (specially on the software side of things)

Anyways More power to you guys for your endeavour

 

[LegionnairE]

I don't think EO systems have that much power draw in comparison to radars but they do require more cooling, so I don't think that is the reason.

Anyways More power to you guys for your endeavour

No no I meant exact opposite, AESA radars draw enormous power and they require lots of cooling.

I said I WOULD go for EO DAS because of the low power draw and use that power for laser countermeasures instead.

 

[Kejo]

And since I'm not a Chinese - while some of you constantly claim, the Chinese J-10C or even the WS-10C will be the only alternative if the West refuses its own high end types; as such you indeed care about Chinese - this attempted insult is irrelevant.

Since you're German, I'd like to ask you one question:

Would you block the export of Eurofighters to Türkiye knowing that the outcome will be Ankara either going to Moscow or Beijing?