Turkish Commander Checks Out JF-17 C

[luciferdd]

The service life of WS-10s is up to 2000 hours. Where did you read that it is 5000? cite the source.

Where did you read that it is 2000? cite the source,while PLAF&PAF never open the data about it.

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

As I explained, Turkey will NEVER buy a chinese plane. This is the reality.

I don't have the time and patience to indulge in your stupid delusions.

Who knows which Turk is honest.

Who knows we should trust Turkey's elite or Turkey waste?

Turks have always been insane.

Don't worry. China does not necessarily sell J-10 to Türkiye... After all. You know. China and Greece have good relations.

 

[LegionnairE]

I find that to be a very peculiar statement. If an airframe's performance can be determined solely by its engines, then JF-17 would 50% of a MiG-29, and Hurjet would be 50% of a super hornet.

Unless the hurjet goes through very significant redesigns, I doubt hurjet would perform anywhere close to the Gripen-E in terms of flight performance. Design wise, Hurjet makes use of a traditional layout with a relatively high aspect ratio wing, very modest wing root extension, unadjustable serrated boundary layer intake, suggesting that while the jet probably CAN reach supersonic speeds and perhaps have certain high AOA capability, it is primarily designed to operate in stable, low AOA, subsonic flight, as it should as a trainer/attacker. The fuselage is significantly shorter and thinner than the Gripen-E, while the aircraft have fairly low ground clearance with the gear down, suggesting relatively low internal fuel and no place for under-fuselage dump tanks, again, suggesting a focus on being a maintenance-friendly training instead of a combat jet. On top of that, the position of the canopy for the hurjet is fairly close to the nose, giving the pilots good visibility at the expense of space for a powerful radar with large aperture.

Given pictures of the mockup with payload, the Hurjet's combat variant should feature 2 wingtip hardpoints and 4 hardpoints under wing, with the inner-most able to accommodate dump tanks a larger A2G payloads, while the outward hard points designed for ~250lb bombs or perhaps more infrared missiles. This is quite modest compared to the Gripen-E, but suitable for a light trainer/attacker.

That's why I said "comparable" not the exact same performance of Gripen-E. I expect there to be significant redesigns but there won't be a Delta wing for example, it will be significantly different.


if the airframe stays the same, it will be more comparable (in kinematic performance) to Gripen B or C or FA-50 for that matter

not a bad outcome

Technologically speaking I think we will far surpass Gripen, even the E version

Who knows which Turk is honest.

Who knows we should trust Turkey's elite or Turkey waste?

Turks have always been insane.

View attachment 965190

Don't worry. China does not necessarily sell J-10 to Türkiye... After all. You know. China and Greece have good relations.

So shut up.

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

That's why I said "comparable" not the exact same performance of Gripen-E. I expect there to be significant redesigns but there won't be a Delta wing for example, it will be significantly different.


if the airframe stays the same, it will be more comparable (in kinematic performance) to Gripen B or C or FA-50 for that matter

not a bad outcome


So shut up.

Sorry. It's hard for me to believe in Türkiye waste....

 

[Harbyharb]

As I explained, Turkey will NEVER buy a chinese plane. This is the reality.

I don't have the time and patience to indulge in your stupid delusions.

I am inclined to agree. The strategic needs of the Turkish air force is far too different from PLAAF, less emphasis on intercepts and counter-air (so long as they can match the greeks which isn't a high bar to cross), more emphasis on A2G in either tactical strikes against fixed installations or precision attack against enemy units and assets, suppressing separatist element and regional rivals. Perhaps the only tactical aircraft in the PLAAF inventory that may suit their need are the flanker variants and maybe the JH-7, but those are not being offered for fairly obvious reasons.

Yet, if we are willing to look beyond tactical jets, strategic assets like ZDK-03 turboprop AEW is quite an appealing, inexpensive AESA platform, with an open avionics architecture compatible with NATO datalinks (as demonstrated by PAF that already operates them).

Again, I get it, Turks are pushing for indigenous arms development out of both external diplomatic and internal socio-economic pressure, but if observing the development of the Indian air power and aviation industry over the past 10 years of taught me anything, it would be to set realistic goals and keep an open mind.

 

[LegionnairE]

Sorry. It's hard for me to believe in Türkiye waste....

Wase is a dog eating chink

I am inclined to agree. The strategic needs of the Turkish air force is far too different from PLAAF, less emphasis on intercepts and counter-air (so long as they can match the greeks which isn't a high bar to cross), more emphasis on A2G in either tactical strikes against fixed installations or precision attack against enemy units and assets, suppressing separatist element and regional rivals. Perhaps the only tactical aircraft in the PLAAF inventory that may suit their need are the flanker variants and maybe the JH-7, but those are not being offered for fairly obvious reasons.

Yet, if we are willing to look beyond tactical jets, strategic assets like ZDK-03 turboprop AEW is quite an appealing, inexpensive AESA platform, with an open avionics architecture compatible with NATO datalinks (as demonstrated by PAF that already operates them).

Again, I get it, Turks are pushing for indigenous arms development out of both external diplomatic and internal socio-economic pressure, but if observing the development of the Indian air power and aviation industry over the past 10 years of taught me anything, it would be to set realistic goals and keep an open mind.

Even if China gave them for free, what would we do with them? They aren't compatible with anything we have.

Reallistically speaking Turkey needs F-15Es to replace the F4 Phantom fleet, about 40-50 units would suffice. But the US won't sell them.

And Frankly Turkey has much more powerful AEW&C planes. We just need more of them:

These are state of the art systems, we have the qualitative edge against everybody in the region.

 

[Harbyharb]

Even if China gave them for free, what would we do with them? They aren't compatible with anything we have.

Like I said, ZDK-03, the export variant of the KJ-500, is already in service with the PAF. It has an open avionics architecture and is compatible with NATO datalink, able to perform joint operation with Pakistani F-16s. An inexpensive turboprop driven AESA equipped AEW aircraft would do wonders bridging gaps in aerial awareness against both aircraft and other threats such as cruise missiles or drones.

And Frankly Turkey has much more powerful AEW&C planes. We just need more of them:
(awesome clean E-7 pic)

Absolutely. I am aware the Turkish air force have E-7s, and they are very capable systems. But like you said it yourself,

But the US won't sell them.

Turkiye need more of them and Uncle Sam is probably not feeling very helpful for the stunts you guys pulled in the recent years, if they are stingy even with F-15s like you said.

These are state of the art systems, we have the qualitative edge against everybody in the region.

Judging by your signature, I'd gamble that you have some knowledge with the third world and their development. If that is the case, you should be aware of the important of preparing for the next war instead of the last. The military capability of Shia Axis is rapidly evolving and I'd wager Turkiye would appreciate expanding its air force, both tactical jets and strategic assets, in order to wage large air campaigns necessary to exert its ambitions.

 

[LegionnairE]

Like I said, ZDK-03, the export variant of the KJ-500, is already in service with the PAF.

I'm not against the idea of smaller, more affordable AEW&C systems but I think it's going to come in shape of an Akıncı drone or Gökbey helicopter carrying a large non-rotating AESA radar.

Regarding what you said about the uncle sam, yes the relations are poor but we still need their cooperation in many things. And being a member of NATO we don't exactly have cordial relations with China either.

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

Wase is a dog eating chink


Even if China gave them for free, what would we do with them? They aren't compatible with anything we have.

Reallistically speaking Turkey needs F-15Es to replace the F4 Phantom fleet, about 40-50 units would suffice. But the US won't sell them.

And Frankly Turkey has much more powerful AEW&C planes. We just need more of them:

These are state of the art systems, we have the qualitative edge against everybody in the region.

Turkish waste will always be waste.

Turkey does not have AEWC technology.

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

Like I said, ZDK-03, the export variant of the KJ-500, is already in service with the PAF. It has an open avionics architecture and is compatible with NATO datalink, able to perform joint operation with Pakistani F-16s. An inexpensive turboprop driven AESA equipped AEW aircraft would do wonders bridging gaps in aerial awareness against both aircraft and other threats such as cruise missiles or drones.

Absolutely. I am aware the Turkish air force have E-7s, and they are very capable systems. But like you said it yourself,

Turkiye need more of them and Uncle Sam is probably not feeling very helpful for the stunts you guys pulled in the recent years, if they are stingy even with F-15s like you said.

Judging by your signature, I'd gamble that you have some knowledge with the third world and their development. If that is the case, you should be aware of the important of preparing for the next war instead of the last. The military capability of Shia Axis is rapidly evolving and I'd wager Turkiye would appreciate expanding its air force, both tactical jets and strategic assets, in order to wage large air campaigns necessary to exert its ambitions.

Understand him. He expects too much from Turkey's technical ability.

He insisted that Turkey has the same technical level as the permanent members of UNSC.

 

[PDF]

Pakistan can play the bridging role between China and Turkiye. Cooperation is better than competition. If Turkish users find China's/Pakistan's fighter jets not suitable enough for their requirements in their opinion, all's cool. Every end user has their own requirements; J10C & JF17 Block III provides their unique pros and cons; if TuAF thinks their Hurjet armed trainer is more than enough vis a vis inducting JF17, good for them. We however think otherwise including that Chinese engines can be relied upon. There is a difference on what is readily available, operationalized vs plans of future.

 

[buntalanlucu]

J 17 have the cost effectiveness of a real workhorse jet , in day to day ops you dont need top of the line aircraft at all times but you need workhorses that can carry ordnance (AAM/ATG) which will do 80% of the work. J 17 should be the 1st choice for any nation's airforce becaues of their proven capabiity and their continuous upgrade/support by Pakistan and china.

I hope Iran , Iraq and other middle eastern nation also look into this excellent jet and ditch the overpriced western aircraft

 

[JamD]

Pakistan can play the bridging role between China and Turkiye. Cooperation is better than competition. If Turkish users find China's/Pakistan's fighter jets not suitable enough for their requirements in their opinion, all's cool. Every end user has their own requirements; J10C & JF17 Block III provides their unique pros and cons; if TuAF thinks their Hurjet armed trainer is more than enough vis a vis inducting JF17, good for them. We however think otherwise including that Chinese engines can be relied upon. There is a difference on what is readily available, operationalized vs plans of future.

The Turks are very suspicious of the Chinese - and for a lot of right reasons. You have to keep in mind Turkiye is a part of NATO and has been a target of espionage attempts. Furthermore, Pakistanis are seen as easily used Chinese moles sometimes by some quarters - there are some real examples of this so I don't blame the Turks. So there would have to be really robust sharing mechanisms for us to be able to overcome these barriers to the Chinese and the Turks collaborating on a deeper level.

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

The Turks are very suspicious of the Chinese - and for a lot of right reasons. You have to keep in mind Turkiye is a part of NATO and has been a target of espionage attempts. Furthermore, Pakistanis are seen as easily used Chinese moles sometimes by some quarters - there are some real examples of this so I don't blame the Turks. So there would have to be really robust sharing mechanisms for us to be able to overcome these barriers to the Chinese and the Turks collaborating on a deeper level.

Greece is also a member of NATO. And China controls Greece's largest port.

Hungary is also a member of NATO. Considered as an ally of China.

@JamD So. Stop extortion. Stop insidious speculation. Okay?

China did not mention selling J-10 and WS-10 to Turkey.

Only a portion of the Turkey elite want to buy the J-10 and WS-10. This is Turkey's problem.

Stop blackmailing China. Okay?

What I mean is. China really doesn't want to cooperate with Turkey.

Still hope that Türkiye members and its fans stop making jokes....

Because China is worried more.

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

Pakistan can play the bridging role between China and Turkiye. Cooperation is better than competition. If Turkish users find China's/Pakistan's fighter jets not suitable enough for their requirements in their opinion, all's cool. Every end user has their own requirements; J10C & JF17 Block III provides their unique pros and cons; if TuAF thinks their Hurjet armed trainer is more than enough vis a vis inducting JF17, good for them. We however think otherwise including that Chinese engines can be relied upon. There is a difference on what is readily available, operationalized vs plans of future.

The problem for the Turks is that Turkey only makes a fighter jet and some UAVs. This makes Turks believe that Turkey’s technological level can be compared with the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council.