Turkey successfully tests HISAR-A air defence system

[Mithridates]

Midcourse guidance via RF data-link and Terminal guidance with IIR seeker.

more or less it's similar to iron dome. does it have ABM capability??

This is HISAR-A (short-range).

did they announced it's range??

 

[ziya]

The Missile of Hisar doesnt use a radar to lock however the system has to have a searching radar which emits signals therefor it is impossible to be stealth.

The important thing is coming missile to you not a searching radar,otherwise you can not even take off because search radars on everywere

 

[CAN_TR]

did they announced it's range??

HISAR-A's range is 15km, it's the short-range variant of the HISAR family.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Tebrikler

 

[Kamil_baku]

more or less it's similar to iron dome. does it have ABM capability??


did they announced it's range??

good side of it, it is designed to protect ships and ground forces from supersonic(i might confus this part but faster than subsonic, like 3 march) as European variants. in 10-15 years, all antiship missiles will probably will be in that class

 

[Mithridates]

The important thing is coming missile to you not a searching radar,otherwise you can not even take off because search radars on everywere

you're confused sir. only 5 generation planes have the capability to know how far a missile is from them. 4th generations have RWR systems showing them scanning radars direction and if they lock on it, the system starts to warn pilot that possibly a missile fired on him. however systems like hisar usually use radar and optical target. acquisition units so they can go steath if they want.
for example our buk/raad systems use this optical target acquisition unit with search range of 50 km and interception range of 80 km or they can use the main radar unit.

 

[ziya]

you're confused sir. only 5 generation planes have the capability to know how far a missile is from them. 4th generations have RWR systems showing them scanning radars direction and if they lock on it, the system starts to warn pilot that possibly a missile fired on him. however systems like hisar usually use radar and optical target. acquisition units so they can go steath if they want.
for example our buk/raad systems use this optical target acquisition unit with search range of 50 km and interception range of 80 km or they can use the main radar unit.
View attachment 549334

As you said when the fire control radar locked ,radar warning system work but not with search radar

 

[SOHEIL]

Hope Pakistan get them too.

You can't develop them at home?

 

[cabatli_53]

Semi active guided missiles require continuous illumination and missile follows the radio waves reflected by target so Target’s EW can easily detect those missiles with “lock” signal.

If the missile is Rf guided active homing, then The missile’s radar emits the continuous waves to target and same missile receives the reflected waves from target. Continuous illumination is not needed in those missiles but RWR can detect them with the waves emited by missile itself.

If the missile is Command guided, the search radar track the target and a seperate radar track the missile itself. The fire control computer calculates the interception point in accordance to datas received by both radars. The missile is steered to intercept with target by same seperate radar. This is the most sneaky way of striking high value targets because The target will realize a radar (If not working on passive mode) tracking itself but never know a missile approaching to him. That is the method developed to overcome RWR but, The ultraviolet signatures of coming missile can be detected by MWR. The latest generation missiles have smokeless propulsion with less heating signature on terminal phase with stopping rocket motor not to burn fuel in this phase so the pilot will just have a few second to realize He is going to be wasted in a short time. Hisar-IIR is the most effective way of killing enemy aircrafts thanks to command-guided method on midcourse and IIR guidance ın terminal phase but IIR sensors bring some limitations on surface to air missiles. They are good but not perfect on naval applications because of being effected by bad weather conditions and foggy environment. Same for land based variants on regions having rainy and foggy climate conditions. Their ranges are not long enough against active homing missiles so Hisar-O will be revealed in two different variant. IIR and Rf.

 

[UkroTurk]

The important thing is coming missile to you not a searching radar,otherwise you can not even take off because search radars on everywere

All SAMs use semi-active guidance on the middle course and mostly at the final stage so their missiles are also as uncatchable as Hisar's missiles. When a big SAM like Patriot launches a missile it uses also a ground radar.The AN/MPQ-65 Radar, which has been continuously tracking the hostile aircraft, "acquires" the just-fired missile and begins feeding it interception data. The Radar also "illuminates" the target for the missile's semi-active seeker.

So Hisars missilles doesnt have more advantages over other systems in the term of stealth.

Semi active guided missiles require continuous illumination and missile follows the radio waves reflected by target so Target’s EW can easily detect those missiles with “lock” signal.

If the missile is Rf guided active homing, then The missile’s radar emits the continuous waves to target and same missile receives the reflected waves from target. Continuous illumination is not needed in those missiles but RWR can detect them with the waves emited by missile itself.

If the missile is Command guided, the search radar track the target and a seperate radar track the missile itself. The fire control computer calculates the interception point in accordance to datas received by both radars. The missile is steered to intercept with target by same seperate radar. This is the most sneaky way of striking high value targets because The target will realize a radar (If not working on passive mode) tracking itself but never know a missile approaching to him. That is the method developed to overcome RWR but, The ultraviolet signatures of coming missile can be detected by MWR. The latest generation missiles have smokeless propulsion with less heating signature on terminal phase with stopping rocket motor not to burn fuel in this phase so the pilot will just have a few second to realize He is going to be wasted in a short time. Hisar-IIR is the most effective way of killing enemy aircrafts thanks to command-guided method on midcourse and IIR guidance ın terminal phase but IIR sensors bring some limitations on surface to air missiles. They are good but not perfect on naval applications because of being effected by bad weather conditions and foggy environment. Same for land based variants on regions having rainy and foggy climate conditions. Their ranges are not long enough against active homing missiles so Hisar-O will be revealed in two different variant. IIR and Rf.

Even active guidance Air -to -air missiles can't complete all course with out aircraft's radar. For example if Amraam has 100km range it flies %70 with assistance of a fighter's radar then last stage it can engage using own radar. So we can say that Just Stingers are really stealth.

 

[cabatli_53]

All SAMs use semi-active guidance on the middle course and mostly at the final stage so their missiles are also as uncatchable as Hisar's missiles. When a big SAM like Patriot launches a missile it uses also a ground radar.The AN/MPQ-65 Radar, which has been continuously tracking the hostile aircraft, "acquires" the just-fired missile and begins feeding it interception data. The Radar also "illuminates" the target for the missile's semi-active seeker.

So Hisars missilles doesnt have more advantages over other systems in the term of stealth.


Even active guidance Air -to -air missiles can't complete all course with out aircraft's radar. For example if Amraam has 100km range it flies %70 with assistance of a fighter's radar then last stage it can engage using own radar. So we can say that Just Stingers are really stealth.

Bro, Amraam uses both active and semi-active methods so You selected a false example to introduce it. Semi-active guided missiles have just receiver sensors (R) and, they correct flight path to follow waves reflected from target. Those waves are generated from main illumination radars out of missile. On the other hand, active radar missiles are fire/forget missiles having both radar energy receiving (R) and transmitting(T) capabilities. They do not need any secondary illumination radar. Pilots/Operators just fire the missile to a general directon against target tracked by a search radar. After this process, The missile generates own electromagnetic waves and receive reflected waves to establish their interception course. The missile can be updated via data-link capability on midcourse. That is the main difference between them.

 

[UkroTurk]

Bro, Amraam uses both active and semi-active methods so You selected a false example to introduce it. Semi-active guided missiles have just receiver sensors (R) and, they correct flight path to follow waves reflected from target. Those waves are generated from main illumination radars out of missile. On the other hand, active radar missiles are fire/forget missiles having both radar energy receiving (R) and transmitting(T) capabilities. They do not need any secondary illumination radar. Pilots/Operators just fire the missile to a general directon against target tracked by a search radar. After this process, The missile generates own electromagnetic waves and receive reflected waves to establish their interception course. That is the main difference between them.

I read in somewhere on internet Amraam can't engage and Chase its target at long range such as 100km. The missile can just engage 30-40km using own radar. As you know engagement of 100km needs larger or tremendous expensive active guidance. I meant the using of active guidance on long range .

This scheme works in inertial if target is is big a aircraft flies linear without any sharp maneuver. İnertial mode won't help in dog fight against a fighter.

 

[ziya]

İs there any counter measure sytem to engage at the terminal phase of the IIR imissiles other than maneoveur of the plane?

 

[Super Falcon]

How will it impact current talks of s 400 and info on its comparison with s400

Sir use some brains S 400 and hisar are different systems al together

Hisar should be medium range air defence pak lacks different system as it come from reliable islamic brother

Hope Pakistan get them too.

Yes they are coming from reliable muslim brotherly country must be given priotity over allothers and qualitivly they are ewualygood to any western system

 

[cabatli_53]

İs there any counter measure sytem to engage at the terminal phase of the IIR imissiles other than maneoveur of the plane?

Advanced detectors come with advanced image processors on those missiles. Modern heat-seeking missiles use imaging infrared(IIR), which is able to produce an image in infra-red, much like the CCD in a digital camera. This requires much more signal processing to be much more accurate and harder to fool. Advanced detectors tracking the targets in different wavelengths along with advanced image processors make them incredible deadly and so, old tricks to fool seeker with Sun became unlikely because image processors identify the target shape, even capability of locking onto the section which spreads lower level thermal signals than exhaust. Auto dimmer is also used by those processors.

Resistance to Flares (Main tool to defeat IIR seeker), Early seekers used a single detector that was sensitive to very hot portions of the aircraft like jet exhaust, making them suitable for tail-chase scenarios but This caused them to be fooled by flares easily. New seekers have a dual-frequency seeker which is able to distinguish flares from the actual target.

Other solution to overcome flares are digital processing. In this method, The target data taken by seeker detectors processed to produce an image, something like desktop scanner. Image Processors remember the location of the target from scan to scan, objects moving at high speeds relative to the target could be eliminated. That is called as cinematic filtering !

The older generation IR missiles would simply point towards the target with narrow looking seekers and chase it not to make them exit out of FOV but this was inefficient in many aspect and absorbing the acceleration energy and thrust power of missiles while seeker itself will be fooled while following exhaust heat.

Newer IIR missiles are smarter and use the gimbaled seeker head combined with "proportional guidance" in order to avoid oscillation and to fly an efficient intercept path. Proportional guidance is a method widely used by captains/officers working in merchant ships to avoid collision with another ship navigating in a collision route. It is based on the fact that two vehicles are on a collision course, when their direct line of sight does not change direction but the range closes steadily.

How it works in missiles ? Gimbal seeker turns towards target to lock on, while Missile is proceeding a steady course different than the direction of seeker. A gyroscope inside of seeker continuously calculate the relative bearing thanks to data taken by gimballed seeker, while the distance between them are decreasing. If the constant bearing chances a bit thanks to escape maneuvering of target, Gimballed seeker will follow the move, while the processor in missile will immediately draw a new route to make bearing angle the constant again until missile and target collide.