Turkey from sick man of EU to the envy of EU: any lessons for Pakistan ?

[Kompromat]

So a successful,rich,powerfull Islamic nation is still in theory.All the best.

Really - should i remind you that the Islamic govt over India for nearly a 1000 years was quite rich and successful and so was the Ottomon Empire.

 

[macnurv]

So a successful,rich,powerfull Islamic nation is still in theory.All the best.

It seems your not even remotely familiar with the Islamic economic system, but its ok so are an over whelming majority of muslims. For all those who are quoting Iran as an exemplary Islamic state please give me a break. Its turning more into a dictatorial thuggery where The Republican Gaurds will end up ruiling the Iranian masses, which are already completely disconnected from Iranian society.

 

[AUz]

Really - should i remind you that the Islamic govt over India for nearly a 1000 years was quite rich and successful and so was the Ottomon Empire.

Don't do it otherwise they all gonna start crying... "no it was not 1000 years exactly and it was less blah blah"

Just tell them to google different "Muslim Empires throughout the history" . . . They'll benefit from it !

 

[MBA.]

Really - should i remind you that the Islamic govt over India for nearly a 1000 years was quite rich and successful and so was the Ottomon Empire.

You are right that the Abbasids, Ottomans, Ummayads, Mughals were quite powerful and wealthy but he does bring an important point. Although many of these governments had some pious emperors but they on the whole were not fully based on Islamic principles but rather on heriditary kingship and they sometimes commited unislamic deeds.
The only truly Islamic government in history was the Rashidun Caliphate; for my Shiite freinds that is further reduced to the reign of Calip Ali ra.

 

[T-Faz]

By the end of a week-long trip through Istanbul, Cappadocia and Ankara, we were overwhelmed with the way Turks felt about our country.​

“I wish I did not know what I know,” was how Zulkof Ajer had me speechless for a while, after I asked him what he knew about Pakistan.

It was dinner time at the Conrad Hotel in Istanbul on June 4, where we had gathered for a pre-consultation of the International Contact Group (ICG) on Afghanistan. Turkey and Norway hosted this meeting that was followed by a similar consultation among the officials from members of ICG i.e. USA, Japan, Germany, Afghanistan, Turkey, India and Pakistan.

The waiter at the Monet Restaurant, an extremely pleasant personality, was curious about our nationality, and was all of a sudden warm and sweet the moment we revealed it. However, for us, the discussion soon turned sour as he, with a visible tinge of discomfort, spoke of the “bombs and violence and bad economy” that dominate the news from of Pakistan every day.

Our economic conditions were the same ten years ago, he said.

I hope and pray that Pakistan will also survive these terrible times, we will keep praying, Zulkof said before moving on to attend to another guest.

For a while, we struggled to recover from the shock that this friendly Turk had given us.

Not that it was a revelation.

What moved us was the concern that Zulkof’s words carried. One could discern his anxiety about Pakistan, and this is what pinned us down, emotionally.

A day earlier, as we came out of the hotel, one of the foreign ministry officials surprised us by pointing us to the car of another senior official.

“He has requested you to accompany him in the car,” she said before boarding the bus with guests from other countries.

It was a very humbling, though reassuring, experience – a very senior Turkish official wanting to give a ride to a Pakistani delegate – a privilege indeed.

We came across this sentiment all over Istanbul. Most people guess us to be Indians but when told about our real identity, most brighten up with affection.

Two young boys at the Sultanahmet Square, for instance, went out of their way to explain to us the location, and also recount some of the historical facts about the grand area.

Officials at the ministry of foreign affairs in Ankara also view developments in Pakistan with great concern. One of them, Halit Cevak, Under Secretary of state, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, resonated similar feelings for Pakistan. During a cruise through the famous Bosphorous waters, he said:

“For us, the Turks, friendship with Pakistan, as you have rightly observed, is inherent in our souls. I always considered it as something unique between nations. You cannot explain it just by history, culture or anything else. It is just, simply there. That’s the beauty of it.”

Two days later, almost 750km from Istanbul, another Turk almost shocked us with his concern for Pakistan. This time it was Mustafa Cevik, a carpet dealer in the famous Ihlara Valley in Central Anatolia. He said something that left us wondering about the strong feelings Turks have about Pakistan:

“I am very unhappy about Pakistan, I hear about violence, bombs, it is very bad, I wish it gets better… Muslim countries don’t have brains, and are thus suffering.”

By the end of a week-long trip through Istanbul, Cappadocia and Ankara, we were overwhelmed with the way Turks felt about our country. Their quick and effective relief and rehabilitation response after two devastating calamities, the October 2005 earthquake and the super floods of 2010, are also examples of Turkish sentiment for Pakistan and its people.

There is however a remarkable difference between the people of the two countries – the Turks are full of national pride and self-confidence.

Almost a century ago, in 1923, Kemal Ataturk defined and chose a path that has seen the country of 72 million people emerge as a vibrant democracy and a strong economy with almost an eight per cent growth rate.

In Pakistan, our ruling elite, with the predominance of the military establishment, has confused nation-building with religious indoctrination and a perpetual propagation of anti-India sentiments that even today form the bedrock of a skewed notion of security. While clarity of vision and purpose of sincerity has helped Turkey flourish, Pakistan continues to suffer because of confusion, indifference of the ruling elite and a tactical mindset.

A taste of Turkish delights – The Express Tribune Blog

 

[sab]

Really - should i remind you that the Islamic govt over India for nearly a 1000 years was quite rich and successful and so was the Ottomon Empire.

rich because India was rich since much older times (considering the wealth of the kings).... and condition of common people did not change in Muslim rules....... whatever richness just shown in extravagenza- temples, mosques and other buildings like Taj.... Before renaissance Europe too was in pathetic conditions, then see what difference they made after that.....And dont forget how those Islamic kingdoms got kicked by the europeans....

 

[Kompromat]

rich because India was rich since much older times (considering the wealth of the kings).... and condition of common people did not change in Muslim rules....... whatever richness just shown in extravagenza- temples, mosques and other buildings like Taj.... Before renaissance Europe too was in pathetic conditions, then see what difference they made after that.....And dont forget how those Islamic kingdoms got kicked by the europeans....

Tipu sultan was martyred in the battle field not in his bedroom. Regardless , everything has an end , for a new beginning. Bravery of my forefathers still warm my blood -- never forget we were kicked out not by the british but by our own traitors -- aka Mir Jaffar & Sadiq.

 

[fast and furious]

Really - should i remind you that the Islamic govt over India for nearly a 1000 years was quite rich and successful and so was the Ottomon Empire.

Sir with all due respects(only cos u have 8000+ posts) some points-
1) the question was asked for a modern era(post world war 2 period) of a successful Islamic nation.
2) The Islamic rule over India(including modern Pakistan) was under the Mughals ,which u call muslims rulers, was just 300 years old.because (next debate).
3) Let d past go and talk about 2011.u will not as 'reality bites'.

my sympathies to you.

 

[fast and furious]

Tipu sultan was martyred in the battle field not in his bedroom. Regardless , everything has an end , for a new beginning. Bravery of my forefathers still warm my blood -- never forget we were kicked out not by the british but by our own traitors -- aka Mir Jaffar & Sadiq.

Sir he is talking post renaissance.
And a muslim betrayed a muslim in this case.This is NEWS.even today

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

Tipu sultan was martyred in the battle field not in his bedroom. Regardless , everything has an end , for a new beginning. Bravery of my forefathers still warm my blood -- never forget we were kicked out not by the british but by our own traitors -- aka Mir Jaffar & Sadiq.

Tipu Sultan was a dakkhini muslim with his capital at Seringapatnam . Siraj -ud -Daulah was of Arab descent with his Capital at Murshidabad . How did they become your forefathers ?

 

[fast and furious]

Tipu Sultan was a dakkhini muslim with his capital at Seringapatnam . Siraj -ud -Daulah was of Arab descent with his Capital at Murshidabad . How did they become your forefathers ?

nailed it bro.

but the history taught to them is different.

 

[EagleOne]

Lessons for Pakistan:

1) Stop portraying yourselves as the protector of Islam. Disband the religious madrassas and join us in the 21st century to create a nation that progresses through rapid scientific progress

2) Stop trying to arm Afghani pashtuns to infiltrate India. They have harmed you more than anything else.

3) Stop listening to religious leaders filling your mind with nonsense. They crave power, nothing else. They think that by doing this they will become a part of the ruling elite and they are successful so far in doing so. However, the people who support these bigots are uneducated people whose only resort is religion. Unless the aid is utilized in creating a well educated population capable of thinking rationally, these religious bigots will always achieve what they want. Do not let them do so.

 

[NmHqh2JbVo]

Lessons for Pakistan:

1) Stop portraying yourselves as the protector of Islam. Disband the religious madrassas and join us in the 21st century to create a nation that progresses through rapid scientific progress

2) Stop trying to arm Afghani pashtuns to infiltrate India. They have harmed you more than anything else.

3) Stop listening to religious leaders filling your mind with nonsense. They crave power, nothing else. They think that by doing this they will become a part of the ruling elite and they are successful so far in doing so. However, the people who support these bigots are uneducated people whose only resort is religion. Unless the aid is utilized in creating a well educated population capable of thinking rationally, these religious bigots will always achieve what they want. Do not let them do so.

What do you care, bird? other than nukes falls into the hands of those poor children whos innocent parents ruthless murdered by your war machine?
you don't even have a 21st century, and yet lecturing on what Pakistan should do.

 

[AUz]

rich because India was rich since much older times (considering the wealth of the kings).... and condition of common people did not change in Muslim rules....... whatever richness just shown in extravagenza- temples, mosques and other buildings like Taj.... Before renaissance Europe too was in pathetic conditions, then see what difference they made after that.....And dont forget how those Islamic kingdoms got kicked by the europeans....

What a low-life ! just to calm yourself down,your taking this crap out of your behind.Good way to take out your frustration

And about the Europeans....It went both way.Starting from 8th century...First,different Muslim Empires invaded and kicked Europeans.Spain was conquered and ruled over for ~ 800 years (also southern France and few part of Italy too) and then later on.. Crusade invasion into the Muslim World (of that time) ...See the end result of the Crusades and then you had the Ottomon Empire launching invasions after invasion into the Europe..Conquered and ruled much of the Eastern Europe.. was defeated at the heart of Europe (Vienna) ...In the mean time Muslim Empires were fighting each other..When Ottomons was conquering Europe they were attacked by another Muslim ruler .....Till the start of 18th Century,Ottoman Empire remained the Super-Power specially when it came to the military might !

Then came the time of Europeans..After the Crusades,Europe had learned his lessons and kept on improving and improving.They got improved greatly due to scientific rev. and the age of Exploration etc etc..After mid-18th century and onwards..It was all Europe.As Aeronaut pointed out,everything HAS to come down someday...Muslim Civilization came down and Europe rose ! Oh by the way,its a game of Great Civilizations..Why are you talking about it?

Why are you even talking about Europe and Muslim Empires etc etc??? Your bharti Mata got kicked by Muslims and Europeans alike...Whats your point?

 

[VelocuR]

Aeronaut, sir you have alot of chest thumping about Turkey everyday. Why?

blind brotherhood? How can Pakistan learn from Turkey which is NATO member while Pakistan's path to SCO.

Real point is Pakistan must learn strong and courage from China only, which is our neighbor jointly.