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The US will block Ukraine's application to join NATO

Avoid personal attacks please. :wave:

And if you are going to make a personal attack, then at least write it in proper English.

My point is that the USA refused to put troops on the ground, therefore Crimea is now a part of Russia.

then stop attacking my english please


since when my english is a talking point on thw forum,along with my nationality

Well, just something you dont see does not mean they did not do anything so...should we all jump in nose first with troop before all the tinyest argument there are?
 
Now you are misusing your rating power. I didn't make any personal attack. :lol:

@Horus, please review the negative ratings on these two posts:





The first one is clearly a personal attack, the second one is not.

dude u said

do so with proper english

since when do people post need to take to proper english, if proper english is an requirment, then almost half of the post will need to be deleted.

You are attacking my language skill which i dont know what have got to do with this discussion
 
dude u said

do so with proper english

since when do people post need to take to proper english, if proper english is an requirment, then almost half of the post will need to be deleted.

You are attacking my language skill which i dont know what have got to do with this discussion

I said "And IF you are going to make a personal attack, then at least write it in proper English."

The obvious implication is that you shouldn't make personal attacks in the first place. :lol:
 
I said "And IF you are going to make a personal attack, then at least write it in proper English."

The obvious implication is that you shouldn't make personal attacks in the first place. :lol:

then you should JUST write please dont make personal attack in the first place, wuy you need to say "at least do it with proper english?"

if you can explain why this is not insulting to my launguge skill I will remove my rating myself
 
then you should write please dont make personal attack in the first place, wuy you need to say "at least do it with proper english?"

if you can explain why this is not insulting to my launguge skill I will remove my rating myself

Let Horus and Webmaster handle it. I trust their judgement.
 
Its a game of staring the other party down. Nato will stop at the point of going to a war.

However, if Nato can achieve its objectives without going to a war, why wouldn't it.
 
NATO wont be taking anybody in who brings the chance of going to war as primary incentive.

yes, but the problem is, will there be a war, anywar?

Even now, the "war" in Ukraine is a contained civil war, Russia can, at anytime, become an active participant but choose to stay out completely.

If joining NATO means war with Russia and hence NATO should never allow Ukraine to join just because of that, then isnt it sort of defeat the purpose of.NATO in the first place? Which is....?
 
yes, but the problem is, will there be a war, anywar?

Even now, the "war" in Ukraine is a contained civil war, Russia can, at anytime, become an active participant but choose to stay out completely.

If joining NATO means war with Russia and hence NATO should never allow Ukraine to join just because of that, then isnt it sort of defeat the purpose of.NATO in the first place? Which is....?

Well that depends how much bear is pushed to the corner.

NATO wont like a war but there are high chances of Russia getting into a direct conflict with Ukraine.

So why would NATO wants to dictate a war on them while they can play safe keeping Ukraine out of NATO but just as an ally?
 
Well that depends how much bear is pushed to the corner.

NATO wont like a war but there are high chances of Russia getting into a direct conflict with Ukraine.

So why would NATO wants to dictate a war on them while they can play safe keeping Ukraine out of NATO but just as an ally?

thats a very good point i supposed.

Whike i agree that NATO should never involved directly in a civil conflict between Ukraine and the rebel, but thats just if the case stays status quo from here on.

However, on the other hand, NATO should also not give into Russia political blackmail as dont forget, the very objective to establish NATO is to balance the power of SovIet Russia, if NATO back out from Ukraine just like that would be like putting tyeir own principle in a piece of paper and eat it....

NATO cannot allow this to hapoen or they will lose not only Ukraine but also the baltic allies too, by the way of Russian threat, thats there are the domino effect
 
thats a very good point i supposed.

Whike i agree that NATO should never involved directly in a civil conflict between Ukraine and the rebel, but thats just if the case stays status quo from here on.

However, on the other hand, NATO should also not give into Russia political blackmail as dont forget, the very objective to establish NATO is to balance the power of SovIet Russia, if NATO back out from Ukraine just like that would be like putting tyeir own principle in a piece of paper and eat it....

NATO cannot allow this to hapoen or they will lose not only Ukraine but also the baltic allies too, by the way of Russian threat, thats there are the domino effect

Agree but we are not talking of NATO of cold war or late 20th century but NATO bruised by almost 15 years of war and crippled by economic downtime.

My point is -

What extra NATO can drive from adding Ukraine as a NATO member which they cant get from Ukraine as a closest ally outside NATO?

However I can see one big benefit - Zero liability.
 
Agree but we are not talking of NATO of cold war or late 20th century but NATO bruised by almost 15 years of war and crippled by economic downtime.

My point is -

What extra NATO can drive from adding Ukraine as a NATO member which they cant get from Ukraine as a closest ally outside NATO?

However I can see one big benefit - Zero liability.

What russia currently doing in Ukraine is not to show their hands on the situation, so people like you and me would have to guess what their true intention are.

Its actually pretty wise if you had asked me, but this have gotta end somehow

We can only see 1 out of the 3 possible scenario, either Ukraine defeat the russian back rebel and somehow they can force Russia to compensate for Crimea or even return it, which is quite impossible

Or we can see a Full Russian support of Ukrainian revolution movement, which is highly likely if.NATO does not have some sort of application done to Ukraine inplace

Or we can see NATO accepting Ukrainian membership, so either Russia gotta fight it out with Ukraine to the west or Russian back off.

Now, if NATO Backed off, Russia can us3 the same trick and approach the baltic.state and NATO will be in a weaker positiin for an eventual war with the Russia

Or NATO can force Russia to back off, which they wiol risk the same war against Russia, but will now be in a better position

Of the 3 possible scenario, onpy if Uiraine defeated the rebel would n9t lead to further war with Russia, the 9ther 2 ootion carry tue same risk of going to war with Russia, the different is just how NATO would start the war, if it indeed happened

getting tired now, gotta get some sleep, will reply in full tomorrow
 
What russia currently doing in Ukraine is not to show their hands on the situation, so people like you and me would have to guess what their true intention are.

Its actually pretty wise if you had asked me, but this have gotta end somehow

We can only see 1 out of the 3 possible scenario, either Ukraine defeat the russian back rebel and somehow they can force Russia to compensate for Crimea or even return it, which is quite impossible

Or we can see a Full Russian support of Ukrainian revolution movement, which is highly likely if.NATO does not have some sort of application done to Ukraine inplace

Or we can see NATO accepting Ukrainian membership, so either Russia gotta fight it out with Ukraine to the west or Russian back off.

Now, if NATO Backed off, Russia can us3 the same trick and approach the baltic.state and NATO will be in a weaker positiin for an eventual war with the Russia

Or NATO can force Russia to back off, which they wiol risk the same war against Russia, but will now be in a better position

Of the 3 possible scenario, onpy if Uiraine defeated the rebel would n9t lead to further war with Russia, the 9ther 2 ootion carry tue same risk of going to war with Russia, the different is just how NATO would start the war, if it indeed happened

  • Russia is covertly involved as of now but if they find their economy to an extent of "no possible further damage", they will chose to get in....in open.
  • Scenario 1 - Ukrainians able to defeat rebels? Possible when they have the West support. But as you have mentioned, no way they can reclaim Crimea on their own, its gone.
  • Scenario 2 - NATO accepting Ukraine membership brings two possibilities - a possible war, or Russia backing off enjoying Crimea. Not much for NATO in either case, yes more liability and little strengthening of group. Military wise, Ukraine with too less muscle and land locked with Russia doesn't add much to NATO.
  • Scenario 3 - NATO cant risk war over Ukraine, period. Its simply very business unlikely, Too much cost for nothing.
  • Best solution for NATO - Extract all benefits from Ukraine without any liability. Keep them closer but not one of them.That's exactly what US is doing here.
 
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