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The troublesome Lashkar

We also aren't as democratic as you are. Like China we also aren't very good with the democracy thing. Ruled by military dictators and all that. Our newly born democracy needs to learn from the "largest democracy in the world". So hold a plebiscite in IOK and we might follow you. Set an example for us to follow.;)

What Plebiscite, There will be no plebiscite in Kashmir. No matter what you do. Kashmir demography is changed. The day Nehru died the plebiscite died.. Go and ask Nehru if he can fulfill his badmouthed comment..
 
Ek baat karo na, ya toh larlo ya dramay baazian na karo.

Kashmiris want freedom, it has been proven countless times over and over again. If you don't give them that, then everything is okay from that point on. You can't set rules of engagement after violating everybody else's basic human rights.

Similarily India doesn't want Kashmir to go, it has been proven time to time. The rules of engagement were set after the initial conflict only, seems that u want to see only one side of the coin. The truth is kashmir is still with us as the other half is with u, I don't think any one can do anything about it, so u can talk thousands or millions of times about violations etc but nobody can do a jack $hit about it. Every poster knows that.
 
One of the most important aspects of Democracy, is "self-determination".

Self-determination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which basically means that the people have a right to choose their own destiny, and is often decided by a referendum.

We of course are not a democracy, but you are (as you always like to say). So keep your promise, and let the Kashmiris determine their own destiny.

What are you afraid of? If you think they will vote to stay with India, then you have nothing to be worried about.

what next i should also have the right to ask for independence of my flat. Since i am the only one who lives there i can declare it an independent state with myself as the president.

The consitution of India does not give right to accession or declare independence for the land of India.
 
Ek baat karo na, ya toh larlo ya dramay baazian na karo.

Kashmiris want freedom, it has been proven countless times over and over again. If you don't give them that, then everything is okay from that point on. You can't set rules of engagement after violating everybody else's basic human rights.

Lead by example, free them yourselves first.

...and please don't come up with that Azad-Kashmir thingy. We all know how azad is azad Kashmir.
 
I don't think it's right for anyone of us to lecture India on how it wants to practice it's democracy.

Malaysia is a democracy, but any sort of talk against the interest of the government can put you in jail. We have an act called ISA (Internal Security Act) which allows detention of anyone who acts against the interest of the country, without any charges or arrest warrant.

It definately doesnt fit the definition of the democracy, but it is what is necessary to keep the country stable.

India will tweak it's policy to how it suits the country in their best interest. At the end of the day, the nation and it's citizens are its utmost priority.
 
It's the hypocrisy that really annoys me, they whine to a non-democratic country like China, how we should respect the Tibetan's right to self-determination, and let them vote in elections to form their own country.

While they, the "world's largest democracy", deny their own people the right to vote in a referendum that was promised to them, denying them the right to choose their own destiny. What hypocrites.

You either believe in Democracy and self-determination, or you don't.

China doesn't, we never claimed to. What about shining democratic India? What is their excuse?

1. Since Pakistanis themselves accept that Kashmir is a disputed territory and not an integral part of India, hence, Indian democracy cannot be said to be effective in Kashmir.

India has no obligation to implement its democracy in a disputed territory.

We will be as autocratic and draconian as one can be when it comes to Kashmir.

...since it is not an integral part of India, hence, Indian laws do not apply there.

Disputed territory, hence different laws.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

2. The 'logic' of giving everybody the right to decide for themselves is never ending.

Today you give people from one state the right to separate.

Tomorrow somebody else in India will pick up the Gun and ask for a separate state.

Last thing you know, every other city, village, town will ask for independence.

Then every house will ask for independence.

WHERE DOES IT END???

3. The situation in J&K + AK is entirely different today from what it was 63 years ago. Hence, a plebiscite is not possible.

4. The UN resolution which taks about plebiscite does not give the Kashmiris the option of 'independence'. Only two choice are talked about in the UN res., namely, 'Join India' or 'Join Pakistan'.

...any such referendum is hence unfair to those asking for freedom i.e., those who do not want to join either India or Pakistan.


5. By your logic, Pakistan, being a democracy now, should let the people of Balochistan decide their fate too.

...all the moral strictures for India only?? :what:
 
Pakistanis still don't understand why nobody in the world, apart from China, may be, takes them seriously when it comes to Kashmir.

To give lectures to India to free Kashmir, Pakistanis first need to free it themselves.

Why don't Pakistanis lead by example and let Azad Kashmir be free, as in really free...in real terms?

They won't themselves do what they want India to do.


Hypocrisy of the highest degree!

 
One of the most important aspects of Democracy, is "self-determination".

Self-determination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which basically means that the people have a right to choose their own destiny, and is often decided by a referendum.

We of course are not a democracy, but you are (as you always like to say). So keep your promise, and let the Kashmiris determine their own destiny.

What are you afraid of? If you think they will vote to stay with India, then you have nothing to be worried about.

Read this:

Mind your own business

@ Indians,

Since this Chinese has come in this thread, now be ready for the topics like Mumbai attacks and balls of the politicians.

Nice day!
 
A plebiscite cannot be held today for
two reasons. Firstly, Pakistan
continues to illegally occupy a large
chunk of Jammu & Kashmir and does
not allow the people here any freedom
of choice. In most parts of the
Pakistani occupied part of Jammu &
Kashmir, the local people have no
democratic rights. They cannot elect a
government and they cannot dare to
even talk against Pakistan for fear of
being killed. For all practical purposes,
the territory and the people captured
by Pakistan in 1947 have been
incorporated into Pakistan. These
people have always been ruled by
Pakistan and have not been given the
opportunity to learn what democracy
is all about. Unless, Pakistan agrees to
give them a chance to participate in a
plebiscite, it will be of no use.
Secondly, Jammu & Kashmir became a
legal, integral and inseparable part of
India many many years ago because the Accession Letter of Maharaja is with India...
 
And the real irony, is that they refuse to give a referendum to the Kashmiris, then they come and lecture us on Tibet. :lol:

The difference being, that China never claimed to be a democracy in the first place. But India is apparently "the world's largest democracy", so they should keep their promise, and give a referendum to the Kashmiri people.

But no, they will continue to deny the Kashmiris a right to a plebiscite. What hypocrites.

Pretty ill informed argument.. But since you openly admit to not being a democracy, I cant really fault you for not being informed about it. Democracy is defined by the will of the complete population and not a subset of population of a state. And the will of the Indian population about Kashmir is pretty unanimous. Even factoring in the wants of the Kashmiri separatists, the difference is not statistically significant..
 
Do you believe in Democracy and self-determination? Do you believe that human beings have a right to choose their own destiny?

Then keep your promise, and give the Kashmiris a referendum.

Of course you won't though, because you know you won't win. Instead, you guys will start whining about China and Tibet.

Newsflash, China is NOT a democracy, we have no interest in such principles. But Indians are supposed to be the "world's biggest democracy"... so let the Kashmiri people vote, so they can decide their own destiny.

As I thought... whenever you guys whine about freeing Tibet, you are being hypocrites for denying your own people the right to vote in their promised referendum.

Since jayron has done poor job of explaining this to you, Kashmiri "refrendem" was very much on table in 1948. Pakistani simply refused to accept UN conditions. Now Aksai Chin is under Chinese control, Gilgit etc are not even considred part of J&K even though UN specifically said so, hindu population (or any other population except muslim) has virtually dissapeared from IK and there has been massive influx of Pakistanis in their part of Kashmir. So WHO ARE KASHMIRI PEOPLE AGAIN?
 

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