The Nine Unknown by Talbot Mundy and Pakistan

[ps3linux]

I was thinking about the book “The Nine Unknown by Talbot Mundy” and the gist is that a secret society of nine people originally commissioned by King Ashoka has wealth of knowledge and pulling the strings to shape the events and I drew some parallel with Pakistan of today.

I am going to outline few things and then analysis of what I think about them they are:

· Political dynasties have been discredited

· PMLN split in three and will become a regional party in the next few years

· PPPP is in the least leg, Zardari trying desperately to remain relevant even after launching Asefa has not been able to gather traction

· MQM Gone

· ANP, J.I Achakzai almost gone

· JUI is next

· Religious parties in politics practically irrelevant

· Extremist and extremist tendencies discredited and abhorrent

· Lawyers not only discredited but labelled as dishonest, thugs

· Judges discredited on morality, people like Raza M Khan, Faez Essa are just adding to it.

· Media houses discredited line drawn with or against Pakistan

· Generals/forces credibility hanging by a thread

· Business tycoon discredited, proved dishonest and disloyal to the country (mostly)

· Doctors discredited as money making machines less interested in patient welfare and more in money

· Waderas/Jagirdars discredited as thugs, treating people in an inhuman fashion

· Bureaucrats discredited and labelled as dishonest, traitorous, political puppets

My generation is the one which has seen three phases, I remember very young myself being slapped by my grandmother for eating out of a plate of “niaz” send by a neighbor who was known to take bribes with the comments “how could you eat this haram from a rashee’s home”.

Then Zia and post eras where bribes/haram became a norm of the society and now the last 9 years and change (ever since we came back to Pakistan) these happening as mentioned above where corruption is now labelled as a social evil, traffic violation as the same; to cut the story short despite all challenges something/someone is nudging us in the right direction. Above statements are not absolute but generally speaking media who*res sorry houses haven’t they established themselves as Pro and Anti Pakistan. I am not saying the above mentioned are absolute or that we are there yet but we are moving in the right direction aren’t we.

I was just thinking is the answer as simple as “Army” or “The Establishment” I don’t think so is it the “Nine Unknown” or is it the excessive negativity that we have been exposed to over the last decade or so which has forced us to look at ourselves critically, equate us with rest of the “decent world” (I have not used the word developed world deliberately)

When I look at it, think about it I realize whoever is nudging us in the right direction is doing us a great favor, this is the way forward.

While people see negativity, problems I see opportunities, there is so much positive happening around that I wonder why are we missing out on them, why don’t we cherish our achievements. It's just how we perceive things glass is half empty or half full, personally I prefer the later.

Thoughts please?

@Mangus Ortus Novem , @graphican , @Shane , @Dubious

 

[Wrath]

Well I totally agree . First time I have seen someone talk about it and yeah you are right . Maybe it's the secret " court of owls " like the " unknown nine " you were talking about . Indeed someone/something who is nudging us in the right direction is doing us a great favour . The points you presented are almost right . Most of them are based on reality.

 

[ps3linux]

@Mangus Ortus Novem , @Wrath

Fans of lorien legacies and DC Comics, I see.
Love to see your thoughts on the subject.

 

[ps3linux]

Never read any comcis ever! Though used to like Batman, superman films!

I was referring to Math!

Sir the question is are we being nudged in the right direction by someone? some guiding force? or is it something else?

I have studied enough history that I can say with surety that no other nation has taken 2, 180 degrees turns in less than 4 decades. No nation in the modern history has been successful to rout out extremists, extremist tendencies.

There are truly two nations which are battle hardened in the last three decades.

or is it the ahadith which are getting clearer and about to be proven absolutely true. "cool breeze from the east"?

 

[Shane]

I was thinking about the book “The Nine Unknown by Talbot Mundy” and the gist is that a secret society of nine people originally commissioned by King Ashoka has wealth of knowledge and pulling the strings to shape the events and I drew some parallel with Pakistan of today.

I am going to outline few things and then analysis of what I think about them they are:

· Political dynasties have been discredited

· PMLN split in three and will become a regional party in the next few years

· PPPP is in the least leg, Zardari trying desperately to remain relevant even after launching Asefa has not been able to gather traction

· MQM Gone

· ANP, J.I Achakzai almost gone

· JUI is next

· Religious parties in politics practically irrelevant

· Extremist and extremist tendencies discredited and abhorrent

· Lawyers not only discredited but labelled as dishonest, thugs

· Judges discredited on morality, people like Raza M Khan, Faez Essa are just adding to it.

· Media houses discredited line drawn with or against Pakistan

· Generals/forces credibility hanging by a thread

· Business tycoon discredited, proved dishonest and disloyal to the country (mostly)

· Doctors discredited as money making machines less interested in patient welfare and more in money

· Waderas/Jagirdars discredited as thugs, treating people in an inhuman fashion

· Bureaucrats discredited and labelled as dishonest, traitorous, political puppets

My generation is the one which has seen three phases, I remember very young myself being slapped by my grandmother for eating out of a plate of “niaz” send by a neighbor who was known to take bribes with the comments “how could you eat this haram from a rashee’s home”.

Then Zia and post eras where bribes/haram became a norm of the society and now the last 9 years and change (ever since we came back to Pakistan) these happening as mentioned above where corruption is now labelled as a social evil, traffic violation as the same; to cut the story short despite all challenges something/someone is nudging us in the right direction. Above statements are not absolute but generally speaking media who*res sorry houses haven’t they established themselves as Pro and Anti Pakistan. I am not saying the above mentioned are absolute or that we are there yet but we are moving in the right direction aren’t we.

I was just thinking is the answer as simple as “Army” or “The Establishment” I don’t think so is it the “Nine Unknown” or is it the excessive negativity that we have been exposed to over the last decade or so which has forced us to look at ourselves critically, equate us with rest of the “decent world” (I have not used the word developed world deliberately)

When I look at it, think about it I realize whoever is nudging us in the right direction is doing us a great favor, this is the way forward.

While people see negativity, problems I see opportunities, there is so much positive happening around that I wonder why are we missing out on them, why don’t we cherish our achievements. It's just how we perceive things glass is half empty or half full, personally I prefer the later.

Thoughts please?

@Mangus Ortus Novem , @graphican , @Shane , @Dubious

Thank you for the tag.

To me, it is very clear, call it retribution or MakafateAmal, it is the sands of time making history as ordained by a power way beyond the bounds of Earthly confines.

From the minuscule, smaller than the unit of any existence or as large as the collection of galaxies in the universe and beyond. A stage bigger than any of us can possibly fathom yet we think what matters is our interest, our future, our leader, our everything...yet it is not about us it is about those around us; Huqooq ul Ebad...

A simple concept yet it sounds so remote, practically and spiritually challenging that we don't even bother to contemplate its implications in our lives or the society or people around us.

Would we be in the current quagmire; socially, economically or strategically if our leaders were aware of responsibilities that come with Huqooq ul Ebad instead of being born, bred, raised, served and lived their lives self centered and self served. Look at the following still commanded by the corrupt to the core. It seems that this system cant live without them and so is punishing people as the corrupt are being pursued for eradication.

A strong Pakistan would put our enemies in their place had it not been for the Mir Jaffers and Mir Sadiqs. That we are still able to stand some ground against our enemies is a miracle indicative of the power beyond earthly confines that is behind this nudge towards increasingly better times.

The question is, are we making ourselves worthy of this gift of chances after chances to improve our standing or are we still going to give in to the urge of getting back into the clutches of the corrupt instead of getting rid of them???

To me its never about anything else but "Fabi Ayyi Aala-e-Rabbikuma Tukazzibaan" that Pakistan is a gift and we must oblige this gift by ridding it of the termites who have not just devoured it almost hollow from the inside but given our enemies a free hand to meddle in our affairs internally and isolate Pakistan internationally.

Make no mistake Pakistanis - those who looted Pakistan and amassed their own wealth at our expense need to be culled permanently and ruthlessly, without any mercy that they did not show towards Pakistan when looting it. Period.

 

[graphican]

@ps3linux, @Mangus Ortus Novem , @Shane , @Dubious

A few days ago I came across an interesting aspect - the fundamentals that Islam guarantees in an Islamic society and there are three of those, in the following descending order of importance;

1. Protection of self-esteem of every individual
2. Protection of the life of its individuals
3. Protection of earned wealth of every individual

I was fascinated to learn that Self Esteem is the first thing Islam protected for its social members - and I have been thinking about why is it so? Why is self-esteem is protected before human life? And after pondering this is what I concluded: when you are not yourself, you are no-one at all. Even if alive, you do not matter at all as you are no one, you have no identity, you do not stand for anything and you will not strive to be anything.

For many years, as a Nation, we have been "not-ourselves". For whatever reason, we lost our National Self-Esteem. Possibly because Zia imposed a politically needed mask of Islam upon us and told everyone this is what everyone must do, and then Musharaf tried to put a different liberal mask for his political differential and told the Nation this is what everyone must do now. Both identities were fake and both disoriented our National consciousness and we jumbled up our vision, our identity, who we were and where we were going. Then the bad patch of terrorism, bad economy, bad image, poor governance and pretty much everything bad that could happen to us happened - but if you analyse, we as a Nation let everything happen to us without a collective resistance as no one knew where we were going and what must we resist - and in the confusion while we lost a lot - the most damaging thing we lost was our identity as "we".

When a society loses the concept of "we", what is left underneath is "I". Once our National Self-Esteem was damaged and our concept of "we" had a hit, everyone felt they had to protect their skin as individuals or tribes for the protection of their interests. Today if you are part of PPP tribe or PMLN tribe or even PTI tribe you feel safe as the tribe will guarantee that you will live a privileged life even if it comes at the cost of everyone else outside the tribe. The concept of Nation which used to exists across Pakistan - first shrunk to provinces then ethnicities and then interest groups. This was the time when we witnessed "lawyer power group" and "media power group" because the concept of the Nation was weak, concept of "I", "tribes" and "interest-groups" was becoming strong.

And such tribal thinking has forced people in Pakistan to start following their political leaders as religious figures as, without them, they feel powerless and worthless as they have no individual worth and thus want to stay connected with the tribe even if it is corrupt, dishonest or visibly wrong.

I thank Allah that our self-esteem is recovering. Thanks to two strong military leaders who refused to bow before others - our "we" has gained some of its lost strength. Today most Pakistanis agree that extremism is bad, terrorists must be uprooted with force, corrupt must be punished, we will not compromise our priorities because of foreign influence and we will not join American war. Our self-esteem is returning and with that our self-worth is improving and we think what we think is right and our right is not any less right than what Americans think and Saudis think. Even though bleeding, we are standing on our feet and Alhamdolillah with that everything else is also taking its shape.

Another major factor of our stability came from the fact that the State of Pakistan has developed a character which is just right. It is not acting like Musharaf (being too strict to impose martial law) and it is not acting like Gen. Kyani (too polite to let politicians drink national blood). The State is letting its political process run but it is not permitting it to harm it.

Once Mohammad Ali Jinnah was asked will Pakistanis become a Nation in 50 years and he replied no it will take 100 years. We are into 75th year of our independence and looks like we are on our path to become a true Nation now - Alhamdolillha. In another 25 years - if we continued our journey towards growth - yes we will be a force to reckon with.

 

[graphican]

Sir the question is are we being nudged in the right direction by someone? some guiding force? or is it something else?

I have studied enough history that I can say with surety that no other nation has taken 2, 180 degrees turns in less than 4 decades. No nation in the modern history has been successful to rout out extremists, extremist tendencies.

There are truly two nations which are battle hardened in the last three decades.

or is it the ahadith which are getting clearer and about to be proven absolutely true. "cool breeze from the east"?

@ps3linux;

الله تعالیٰ ہی لوگوں کو منتحب کیا کرتا ہے. اصل کامیابی یہ ہے کہ الله آپ کو منتحب کر لے.

I believe there is a purpose of our existence as a Nation. We are the fragrance (خوشبو) which our Prophet SAWW said he smells coming from Hind - and if we are khushboo, and if Allah has chosen us for a service - no power in the world will be able to Undo us.

And we as a Nation have also grown up. We are into teen-years of our National growth and look like young Pakistan has learned a lot - and is not repeating the same mistakes which it knows hurt.

 

[HRK]

Political dynasties have been discredited

· PMLN split in three and will become a regional party in the next few years

· PPPP is in the least leg, Zardari trying desperately to remain relevant even after launching Asefa has not been able to gather traction

· MQM Gone

· ANP, J.I Achakzai almost gone

Just one comment for all this listed political parties and their current conundrum

"Jat Mara Tab Janio Jab Tervi Howe"

 

[YeBeWarned]

"Jat Mara Tab Janio Jab Tervi Howe"

means ?

 

[fitpOsitive]

I was thinking about the book “The Nine Unknown by Talbot Mundy” and the gist is that a secret society of nine people originally commissioned by King Ashoka has wealth of knowledge and pulling the strings to shape the events and I drew some parallel with Pakistan of today.

I am going to outline few things and then analysis of what I think about them they are:

· Political dynasties have been discredited

· PMLN split in three and will become a regional party in the next few years

· PPPP is in the least leg, Zardari trying desperately to remain relevant even after launching Asefa has not been able to gather traction

· MQM Gone

· ANP, J.I Achakzai almost gone

· JUI is next

· Religious parties in politics practically irrelevant

· Extremist and extremist tendencies discredited and abhorrent

· Lawyers not only discredited but labelled as dishonest, thugs

· Judges discredited on morality, people like Raza M Khan, Faez Essa are just adding to it.

· Media houses discredited line drawn with or against Pakistan

· Generals/forces credibility hanging by a thread

· Business tycoon discredited, proved dishonest and disloyal to the country (mostly)

· Doctors discredited as money making machines less interested in patient welfare and more in money

· Waderas/Jagirdars discredited as thugs, treating people in an inhuman fashion

· Bureaucrats discredited and labelled as dishonest, traitorous, political puppets

My generation is the one which has seen three phases, I remember very young myself being slapped by my grandmother for eating out of a plate of “niaz” send by a neighbor who was known to take bribes with the comments “how could you eat this haram from a rashee’s home”.

Then Zia and post eras where bribes/haram became a norm of the society and now the last 9 years and change (ever since we came back to Pakistan) these happening as mentioned above where corruption is now labelled as a social evil, traffic violation as the same; to cut the story short despite all challenges something/someone is nudging us in the right direction. Above statements are not absolute but generally speaking media who*res sorry houses haven’t they established themselves as Pro and Anti Pakistan. I am not saying the above mentioned are absolute or that we are there yet but we are moving in the right direction aren’t we.

I was just thinking is the answer as simple as “Army” or “The Establishment” I don’t think so is it the “Nine Unknown” or is it the excessive negativity that we have been exposed to over the last decade or so which has forced us to look at ourselves critically, equate us with rest of the “decent world” (I have not used the word developed world deliberately)

When I look at it, think about it I realize whoever is nudging us in the right direction is doing us a great favor, this is the way forward.

While people see negativity, problems I see opportunities, there is so much positive happening around that I wonder why are we missing out on them, why don’t we cherish our achievements. It's just how we perceive things glass is half empty or half full, personally I prefer the later.

Thoughts please?

@Mangus Ortus Novem , @graphican , @Shane , @Dubious

Allah janta hai, per haramzadgi apny kamal per hai her jagah Pakistan main..
Or log bilawaja aik dosray se nafrat kerty hain..

 

[HRK]

means ?

Jaat is an ethnicity/cast known for resilient attitude so simply this saying is indicating that one can not consider the death of Jaat confirmed till the 13th day of his death is completed, so this proverb is use to indicate the resilient nature of someone or something

Here I was indicting that we can not say that these political parties listed in opening post have no future in Pakistani politics till the time not only their leaders but follower of those cults and philosophy of hate also die, which is unfortunatly a distant dream as of now

 

[ps3linux]

Thank you for the tag.

To me, it is very clear, call it retribution or MakafateAmal, it is the sands of time making history as ordained by a power way beyond the bounds of Earthly confines.

From the minuscule, smaller than the unit of any existence or as large as the collection of galaxies in the universe and beyond. A stage bigger than any of us can possibly fathom yet we think what matters is our interest, our future, our leader, our everything...yet it is not about us it is about those around us; Huqooq ul Ebad...

A simple concept yet it sounds so remote, practically and spiritually challenging that we don't even bother to contemplate its implications in our lives or the society or people around us.

Would we be in the current quagmire; socially, economically or strategically if our leaders were aware of responsibilities that come with Huqooq ul Ebad instead of being born, bred, raised, served and lived their lives self centered and self served. Look at the following still commanded by the corrupt to the core. It seems that this system cant live without them and so is punishing people as the corrupt are being pursued for eradication.

A strong Pakistan would put our enemies in their place had it not been for the Mir Jaffers and Mir Sadiqs. That we are still able to stand some ground against our enemies is a miracle indicative of the power beyond earthly confines that is behind this nudge towards increasingly better times.

Bhai I think each one of us is partly responsible for the past deeds, but looking at bright side things are going to improve.

@ps3linux, @Mangus Ortus Novem , @Shane , @Dubious

A few days ago I came across an interesting aspect - the fundamentals that Islam guarantees in an Islamic society and there are three of those, in the following descending order of importance;

1. Protection of self-esteem of every individual
2. Protection of the life of its individuals
3. Protection of earned wealth of every individual

I was fascinated to learn that Self Esteem is the first thing Islam protected for its social members - and I have been thinking about why is it so? Why is self-esteem is protected before human life? And after pondering this is what I concluded: when you are not yourself, you are no-one at all. Even if alive, you do not matter at all as you are no one, you have no identity, you do not stand for anything and you will not strive to be anything.

For many years, as a Nation, we have been "not-ourselves". For whatever reason, we lost our National Self-Esteem. Possibly because Zia imposed a politically needed mask of Islam upon us and told everyone this is what everyone must do, and then Musharaf tried to put a different liberal mask for his political differential and told the Nation this is what everyone must do now. Both identities were fake and both disoriented our National consciousness and we jumbled up our vision, our identity, who we were and where we were going. Then the bad patch of terrorism, bad economy, bad image, poor governance and pretty much everything bad that could happen to us happened - but if you analyse, we as a Nation let everything happen to us without a collective resistance as no one knew where we were going and what must we resist - and in the confusion while we lost a lot - the most damaging thing we lost was our identity as "we".

When a society loses the concept of "we", what is left underneath is "I". Once our National Self-Esteem was damaged and our concept of "we" had a hit, everyone felt they had to protect their skin as individuals or tribes for the protection of their interests. Today if you are part of PPP tribe or PMLN tribe or even PTI tribe you feel safe as the tribe will guarantee that you will live a privileged life even if it comes at the cost of everyone else outside the tribe. The concept of Nation which used to exists across Pakistan - first shrunk to provinces then ethnicities and then interest groups. This was the time when we witnessed "lawyer power group" and "media power group" because the concept of the Nation was weak, concept of "I", "tribes" and "interest-groups" was becoming strong.

And such tribal thinking has forced people in Pakistan to start following their political leaders as religious figures as, without them, they feel powerless and worthless as they have no individual worth and thus want to stay connected with the tribe even if it is corrupt, dishonest or visibly wrong.

I thank Allah that our self-esteem is recovering. Thanks to two strong military leaders who refused to bow before others - our "we" has gained some of its lost strength. Today most Pakistanis agree that extremism is bad, terrorists must be uprooted with force, corrupt must be punished, we will not compromise our priorities because of foreign influence and we will not join American war. Our self-esteem is returning and with that our self-worth is improving and we think what we think is right and our right is not any less right than what Americans think and Saudis think. Even though bleeding, we are standing on our feet and Alhamdolillah with that everything else is also taking its shape.

Another major factor of our stability came from the fact that the State of Pakistan has developed a character which is just right. It is not acting like Musharaf (being too strict to impose martial law) and it is not acting like Gen. Kyani (too polite to let politicians drink national blood). The State is letting its political process run but it is not permitting it to harm it.

Once Mohammad Ali Jinnah was asked will Pakistanis become a Nation in 50 years and he replied no it will take 100 years. We are into 75th year of our independence and looks like we are on our path to become a true Nation now - Alhamdolillha. In another 25 years - if we continued our journey towards growth - yes we will be a force to reckon with.

As usual a well thought, eloquent analysis. Yes self esteem is improving, and just today I was mentioning to @zulu that inshallah within a decade reverse brain drain will start for Pakistan.

 

[Verve]

Political dynasties have been discredited

· PMLN split in three and will become a regional party in the next few years

· PPPP is in the least leg, Zardari trying desperately to remain relevant even after launching Asefa has not been able to gather traction

· MQM Gone

· ANP, J.I Achakzai almost gone

· JUI is next

· Religious parties in politics practically irrelevant

· Extremist and extremist tendencies discredited and abhorrent

· Lawyers not only discredited but labelled as dishonest, thugs

· Judges discredited on morality, people like Raza M Khan, Faez Essa are just adding to it.

· Media houses discredited line drawn with or against Pakistan

· Generals/forces credibility hanging by a thread

· Business tycoon discredited, proved dishonest and disloyal to the country (mostly)

· Doctors discredited as money making machines less interested in patient welfare and more in money

· Waderas/Jagirdars discredited as thugs, treating people in an inhuman fashion

· Bureaucrats discredited and labelled as dishonest, traitorous, political puppets

Awareness of right and wrong (shaoor) is a blessing from The Creator and the minds of the public are gradually receiving this blessing. And this I feel is the reason of the changes you've kindly listed.

The bad times are/were not without a purpose. Each painful/bad event/time is accompanied with a lesson and followed by ease.

When the shaoor reaches the threshold for major sweeping changes, those will happen then and the rotten system will fall like a house of cards.

While people see negativity, problems I see opportunities, there is so much positive happening around that I wonder why are we missing out on them, why don’t we cherish our achievements.

We will insha'Allah cherish and celebrate our achievements more and openly.

As a nation collectively we have not fully learnt the lessons.

A war will eventually be the tipping point accompanying one of the major lessons followed by His blessing of ease.

 

[ps3linux]

@ps3linux;

الله تعالیٰ ہی لوگوں کو منتحب کیا کرتا ہے. اصل کامیابی یہ ہے کہ الله آپ کو منتحب کر لے.

I believe there is a purpose of our existence as a Nation. We are the fragrance (خوشبو) which our Prophet SAWW said he smells coming from Hind - and if we are khushboo, and if Allah has chosen us for a service - no power in the world will be able to Undo us.

And we as a Nation have also grown up. We are into teen-years of our National growth and look like young Pakistan has learned a lot - and is not repeating the same mistakes which it knows hurt.

I agree that's why I mentioned "cool breeze from the east" We as a nation have a destiny, we may not know it but hindu brahmins practicing astrology know it and that is what scares them the most.

Just one comment for all this listed political parties and their current conundrum

"Jat Mara Tab Janio Jab Tervi Howe"

Allah janta hai, per haramzadgi apny kamal per hai her jagah Pakistan main..
Or log bilawaja aik dosray se nafrat kerty hain..

I know what both of you gentlemen mean, like @graphican mentioned look at it on a long term perspective 10 years, 20 years, 30 years down the road like a think tank, I am of the opinion glass is half full and rest will be filled inshallah in the years and decades to come, may be not us, but our children and their children will see better times.

You know hatred emanates from preconceived ideas, lack of grooming, intolerance and fw other factors one of the reason people like @graphican and undersigned and lot of others are trying to bring a change to our education system.

Awareness of right and wrong (shaoor) is a blessing from The Creator and the minds of the public are gradually receiving this blessing. And this I feel is the reason of the changes you've kindly listed.

The bad times are/were not without a purpose. Each painful/bad event/time is accompanied with a lesson and followed by ease.

When the shaoor reaches the threshold for major sweeping changes, those will happen then and the rotten system will fall like a house of cards.



We will insha'Allah cherish and celebrate our achievements more and openly.

As a nation collectively we have not fully learnt the lessons.

A war will eventually be the tipping point accompanying one of the major lessons followed by His blessing of ease.

Beautifully put yaar, yes shaoor our collective shaoor has started to take roots, I know its going to take time but it is my unwavering belief that we will get there, where holding a Pakistani passport will not be an embarrassment rather a privilege.

 

[KhanBaba2]

we may not know it but hindu brahmins practicing astrology know it and that is what scares them the most.

Are you saying that Hindu Brahmins can make prophecies?