The Libtard onslaught The Gulf Arab Cultural onslaught and Indian Cultural onslaught on Pakistan

[Hamza913]

How were there Muslims before Muhammad's (PBUH) revelations?

A Muslim is someone who submits to Allah. Rasulullah (salallaho'alayhi'wa'a'lahey'wasalam) only repeated what previous Messengers had said.

 

[VCheng]

A Muslim is someone who submits to Allah. Rasulullah (salallaho'alayhi'wa'a'lahey'wasalam) only repeated what previous Messengers had said.

That is a mightily tenuous, and contrived, argument. By that standard, how many more Muslims than just the Messengers are there? Or do we have to now find excuses to exclude them because they have "gone astray" according to our whimsical definitions?

 

[Hamza913]

That is a mightily tenuous, and contrived, argument. By that standard, how many more Muslims than just the Messengers are there? Or do we have to now find excuses to exclude them because they have "gone astray" according to our whimsical definitions?

If you don't like what I'm saying then there's no need to talk to me. Simple.

 

[VCheng]

If you don't like what I'm saying then there's no need to talk to me. Simple.

Or you may want to refrain from making such outlandish claims without any plausible argument to back them up. I wonder what @Indus Pakistan would say about such blatant cultural and religious appropriation of just about all of humanity's legacy without any justification.

 

[Psychic]

Now, I think I should clarify what I meant by reconciling our pre-Islamic past. We should accept that it is a part of our history and thus our heritage. Doing so doesn't translate to endorsing certain pre-Islamic practices which contradict Islam, it just means that our nation has deeper roots that go back thousands of years.

I was not talking about you as I know your take on that issue. I was talking about those secular liberal hyper-nationalists who label us as "Arab slaves" for no good reason whatsoever---Despite us speaking, dressing, eating our own way. We have retained our culture for the most part, and have not Arabized ourselves.

Their real enmity is against religion.

This part (in bold) I would have to strongly disagree on. Girls, women in general, should NEVER have a say in any decision making process of immense importance that will end up having repercussions on them, their future offspring, their community and thus their nation as a whole. Marriage is one of these issues of immense importa

Absolute control is just as counter-productive as absolute freedom.

Nikkah by coercion is invalid to begin with---one can talk the issue or council the girl if there is a need to.

 

[Hamza913]

Or you may want to refrain from making such outlandish claims without any plausible argument to back them up. I wonder what @Indus Pakistan would say about such blatant cultural and religious appropriation of just about all of humanity's legacy without any justification.

These claims aren't outlandish at all, this is basic Islamic Aqeedah. If you don't believe in it then just don't call yourself a Muslim, simple as.

 

[VCheng]

These claims aren't outlandish at all, this is basic Islamic Aqeedah. If you don't believe in it then just don't call yourself a Muslim, simple as.

And what gave you the right to determine what I should call myself?

 

[Hamza913]

And what gave you the right to determine what I should call myself?

You can call yourself what you want, but just know that I'll never consider you to be what you claim unless you can prove it.

 

[VCheng]

You can call yourself what you want, but just know that I'll never consider you to be what you claim unless you can prove it.

You can keep your views to yourself, of course. And I can keep mine. See how that works?

 

[Hamza913]

You can keep your views to yourself, of course. And I can keep mine. See how that works?

I suggested that in the first place, but you kept squealing.

 

[VCheng]

I suggested that in the first place, but you kept squealing.

As long as you know that any outlandish claims you spout will be challenged. You don't post up such claims and all is well.

 

[Hamza913]

As long as you know that any outlandish claims you spout will be challenged. You don't post up such claims and all is well.

I'll keep saying what I have to say. Don't like it? Don't reply. Otherwise, I'll do as I please.

 

[VCheng]

I'll keep saying what I have to say. Don't like it? Don't reply. Otherwise, I'll do as I please.

And I will challenge any unjustified claims as I please. After all, this is a forum.

 

[Desert Fox]

I was not talking about you as I know your take on that issue. I was talking about those secular liberal hyper-nationalists who label us as "Arab slaves" for no good reason whatsoever---Despite us speaking, dressing, eating our own way. We have retained our culture for the most part, and have not Arabized ourselves.

Their real enmity is against religion.

Okay my apologies. I thought you included me there.

And yes, I would agree, such people have enmity with religion.

Absolute control is just as counter-productive as absolute freedom.

Nikkah by coercion is invalid to begin with---one can talk the issue or council the girl if there is a need to.

True, you are correct.

However when it comes to judging men and selecting a prospective groom, women have the intellect of an ant, perhaps even less.

This is why only the father should decide who the prospective groom(s) will be for their daughter(s). Of course, provided that the father is a practicing Muslim and of good character himself.

If he's a drunkard, gambler, or only wants his daughter(s) to marry someone from his own clan or tribe, disregarding the Islamic criteria of selecting a prospective groom (character and religiosity), then of course he is in the wrong and in contradiction with Islam, and this is one of those pre-Islamic practices still common in our region, (unfortunately), and should be ridden of.

That being said, most women decline good proposals over superficial things. For example, a certain guy might have all of the qualities of a good prospective spouse from an Islamic standpoint, but a girl will simply decline him because he can't "make her laugh" or "keep her interest in a conversation".

And of course men in our society aren't any less superficial either. And then the parents make things even more complicated with their own superficial demands. This is why so many Pakistanis end up marrying-out into other Muslim nationalities and races, because our own fellow Pakistanis make it next to impossible to get married to another Pakistani.