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The "friendless" syndrome

Genesis

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Mar 26, 2013
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China has no real allies, China has no friends, China is isolated, China is isolationist, the list goes on.

True or False?

On the surface, it certainly seems true, but, have people been asking the wrong question? The question should be, does China have any enemies? And what are our priorities?

The answer? No.


That's a controversial statement to say China has no enemies, but if you are to look deeper, China really has no enemies.

First, people would point to Japan, what people forget is Japan's real objective. Shinzo Abe was not elected to declare war on China, or go to war at all. He's elected based on Abenomics, he may appeal to the crazy nationalists, but they are only the minority and it is the majority that wants a revived economy that he needs to worry about.

Abe must reconstruct Japan's economy, even if he doesn't do it through China, he at least can't add to the problem by excluding China. Japan has as much at stake in China as Chinese do, I trust him more than I trust our own people in not starting a war, in that sense.


Next we move on to ASEAN, ASEAN is a different beast, it's too weak to be considered an enemy, regardless of their intentions, which most is good. It is only Vietnam and Philippines that is making the noise, and considering we launched 80% of Vietnamese navy's tonnage in one day and 800% of the Philippines, they would not qualify as enemies.

We have good friends in Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Singapore, and good relations with Malaysia, Indonesia, that's most of ASEAN right there.

There is no way that they would fire the first shot, unless something goes seriously wrong, and on the off chance that they do, we can brush them aside with ease.


Taiwan is even simpler, 8 years of DPP, Taiwan independence party, no independence, they controlled the government at that time. Yet here we are, they don't dare fire the first shot and we don't want a pile of rubble we are going to have to rebuild with our money.


We move on to South Asia, this is even simpler, China Pakistan, anything else? Seriously though, China has made great advances in South Asia with all the nations, even India, which counts China as a major trading partner.

In terms of India, if Modi is even half interested in his economic policies, he won't start anything. Economic restructuring, political reforms, he's going to need all the political capital he has, and he doesn't want to waste it on things that may or may not benefit him economically. With the dominance of Congress over the decades, he has a short window, one maybe two terms to show what he's worth.

He may make statements, but if he's who he say he is, he's not going to do anything concrete, especially considering he's counting on Chinese money as part of his plan too, there's no reason to make his task harder than it already is.


Lastly, what's China's intention? China is going through massive reforms, the most radical of which hasn't happened yet, we are trying to minimize the blow back from the economic downturn, spending billions on a meaningless adventure, spending political capital on things that will have the opposite effect on internal stability regardless of result is not Xi's style, or the Chinese style.

It should be obvious to all those that follow China seriously, that the most reforms are again coming from China itself, Xi is turning China upside down to make way for a new China.

He has proven to be a decisive and effective leader, looking at the anti corruption campaign, if he actually wants to make a move, he would have made it. Instead of the little stand off that nobody really cares about.


All in all, does China need any allies? At this point, no, it be counter productive, it would drag us into things that we otherwise don't want to be involved in and potentially derail reforms, which is far more important to Chinese, the leadership and the world economy as a whole.

While on the other side of the fence, who really wants to go at it with a great power for gains no more than a few rocks and deserts. Especially with the world the way it is.
 
Next we move on to ASEAN, ASEAN is a different beast, it's too weak to be considered an enemy, regardless of their intentions, which most is good. It is only Vietnam and Philippines that is making the noise, and considering we launched 80% of Vietnamese navy's tonnage in one day and 800% of the Philippines, they would not qualify as enemies..

So the US has no enemies because we are stronger than everybody else?
 
So the US has no enemies because we are stronger than everybody else?

US shouldn't, but US choose to have enemies. For example, ISIS, if US doesn't care what happens in the Middle East, far from its home is ISIS really a threat? You really believe ISIS will consolidate a state and start invading America?

Russia, if US didn't care about Ukraine, you think Russia will act this way? Since the fall of the Soviet Union has Russia made an honest attempt at the US?

US is a global power with a global ambitions, so in those very specific scenarios, US isn't the all powerful force that it is else where.


@Genesis - You said that China has no 'friends' are we not Allies and Friends ? :cry:

@Chinese-Dragon - What am I reading here ? :angry:

I mean treaty allies, like Japan and the US, China shouldn't have that, at least not right now. It's not in Pakistan or China's interests to do so.

Sometimes self constraint is just as important, Pakistan is rational, but if something were to go wrong, do you really want Pakistan leaders to act without reservation?

There's two nuclear states in South Asia. Besides, Pakistan's primary responsibility must be the economy, it shouldn't be at a place where war is even on the table.

Be practical, utilitarian, and pragmatic.

晴耕雨読

This would be practical, what would be impractical would be to assume China has no "allies" and thus making a move on a false pretence.
 
This would be practical, what would be impractical would be to assume China has no "allies" and thus making a move on a false pretence.

There's strength in being non-aligned, Gen. China can capitalize on this aspect to build her international influence , plus, she benefits in not being entangled with foreign military operations.

I, too, wish Japan remains "silent" in that aspect.
 
There's strength in being non-aligned, Gen. China can capitalize on this aspect to build her international influence , plus, she benefits in not being entangled with foreign military operations.

I, too, wish Japan remains "silent" in that aspect.
your peaceful constitution makes you "silent", though if Abe wants to repel it, that's a weak move, as you can be "loud" with the constitution, but you can't be "silent", if you remove the constitution.

Why limit yourself.
 
There's strength in being non-aligned, Gen. China can capitalize on this aspect to build her international influence , plus, she benefits in not being entangled with foreign military operations.

I, too, wish Japan remains "silent" in that aspect.

"Silence" by others is why Hitler saw an opportunity. The "silence" countries had towards the invasion of China is why things were allowed to happen.

Looking the other way does not make problems go away...."silence" allows little problems to grow into big problems...and sometimes those problems get so big you end up getting dragged into it whether you like it or not.
 
I personally think China has way too many enemies.

The article tries to imply that since Japanese people are not electing Abe to start a war with China, they are hence not enemies, redefines the word, at least the way I understand it. If this is the case, there will really be no enemies in the world, because it will be a very off chance that anyone will elect a leader for the sole purpose of waging war, or explicit aggression and provocation of other side. The world is really complex, and generally everyone thinks that he or she wants to live in peace.

I would define enemies as countries or institutions that are pleading for your fall openly. Who have a very negative opinion of you, and have a major preoccupation to hurt or act against your interests. Obviously there can be many levels of such hatred.

In my view following are the countries and institutions, that are currently, in the near term your enemies or foes whatever you would like to call them. Please be aware these are the foes in the near term (~5 years) and these are based on present geopolitical realities and the policies of major governments. These could very well change over time.

1. Japan

2. Vietnam

3. Philippines

4. India

5. United States, and the inseparable coalition of anglophone countries including Australia

6. Global civil society

7. Taiwan

8. Internal Problems -
  1. Hong Kong
  2. Tibet
  3. Xinjiang
  4. Internal CIvil Society
9. Global Public Opinion normalized with GDP/capita

10. Sentiments against Chinese investment- which is flamed by western media propaganda

11. Muslim sympathy for Uyghurs


Remember again that these are current trends, which totally depend on the current policies. Mongolia has deep distrust and latent aggression towards China, it is always wary of China, for example.

If you look at it, not many countries have similarly fraught relations.

On a side note, I posted a thread in China and Far East and it is telling me that it is asking moderator approval. I have seen this for the first time, and don't know what to do. Its already been hours and there seems to be no progress. I am new here, what should be done?
 
I personally think China has way too many enemies.

The article tries to imply that since Japanese people are not electing Abe to start a war with China, they are hence not enemies, redefines the word, at least the way I understand it. If this is the case, there will really be no enemies in the world, because it will be a very off chance that anyone will elect a leader for the sole purpose of waging war, or explicit aggression and provocation of other side. The world is really complex, and generally everyone thinks that he or she wants to live in peace.

I would define enemies as countries or institutions that are pleading for your fall openly. Who have a very negative opinion of you, and have a major preoccupation to hurt or act against your interests. Obviously there can be many levels of such hatred.

In my view following are the countries and institutions, that are currently, in the near term your enemies or foes whatever you would like to call them. Please be aware these are the foes in the near term (~5 years) and these are based on present geopolitical realities and the policies of major governments. These could very well change over time.

1. Japan

2. Vietnam

3. Philippines

4. India

5. United States, and the inseparable coalition of anglophone countries including Australia

6. Global civil society

7. Taiwan

8. Internal Problems -
  1. Hong Kong
  2. Tibet
  3. Xinjiang
  4. Internal CIvil Society
9. Global Public Opinion normalized with GDP/capita

10. Sentiments against Chinese investment- which is flamed by western media propaganda

11. Muslim sympathy for Uyghurs


Remember again that these are current trends, which totally depend on the current policies. Mongolia has deep distrust and latent aggression towards China, it is always wary of China, for example.

If you look at it, not many countries have similarly fraught relations.

On a side note, I posted a thread in China and Far East and it is telling me that it is asking moderator approval. I have seen this for the first time, and don't know what to do. Its already been hours and there seems to be no progress. I am new here, what should be done?

Are all the South Asian nations your friends?
 
Are all the South Asian nations your friends?

In the list that I have prepared for China, a corresponding list for India will be:

1. Pakistan
2. Kashmir separatists and Maoist
3. Muslim antipathy

We have our issues with Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, but they are nowhere near the level to qualify in this list. Note I didn't mention many other countries in the list of China which it may have minor disagreements with. In both Bangladesh and Srilanka the present governments are friendly to us. There is of course a section of the population in both countries which is extremely anxious about India, but that is well below a third, and is in no way in control of the government. In Bangladesh many people still remember our help during their liberation.
 
In the list that I have prepared for China, a corresponding list for India will be:

1. Pakistan
2. Kashmir separatists and Maoist
3. Muslim antipathy

We have our issues with Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, but they are nowhere near the level to qualify in this list. Note I didn't mention many other countries in the list of China which it may have minor disagreements with. In both Bangladesh and Srilanka the present governments are friendly to us. There is of course a section of the population in both countries which is extremely anxious about India, but that is well below a third, and is in no way in control of the government. In Bangladesh many people still remember our help during their liberation.

Sure, then don't trash talk them when they want to host the routine visit of our nuclear subs.
 
Sure, then don't trash talk them when they want to host the routine visit of our nuclear subs.

But again that is not due to those countries. It is a very deep anxiety in Indian foreign policy circles, about China. Also, you must have seen that the recent government elections in SriLanka came in our favor, with the government head explicitly saying that India should not be infuriated. So yes, the countries like SriLanka and Bangla were playing, what we call the "China Card", but it is nowhere near you.

See fundamentally, the issue is the same that regional small players are anxious about intentions of the regional hegemon and rising power, but in China's case these are way too severe. Why? I think because:
1. China is bigger and growing faster
2. China is more aggressive and assertive
3. China has fundamental disputes with more countries, usually on territory and historical narrative. India fundamentally has disputes only with Pakistan.
4. US is needling countries in Chinese rim

PS- On a side note can you please reply to the thing I asked earlier. I quote it again here:
"I posted a thread in China and Far East and it is telling me that it is asking moderator approval. I have seen this for the first time, and don't know what to do. Its already been hours and there seems to be no progress. I am new here, what should be done?"
 

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