The fall of anti-capitalist West Bengal

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

@jamahir you are Marxist as well as an aspiring tech etnrepreuner...how can you reconcile this split personality?

 

[jamahir]

@jamahir you are Marxist as well as an aspiring tech etnrepreuner...how can you reconcile this split personality?

Below are thoughts I can gather now :

1. I don't really know what are the full technicalities needed to be a Marxist. I had read a slim translation of 'The Communist Manifesto' but have forgotten it. But bear with me. What I know are the aims of Communism and below is how I want them to be :

​

a. Economic change : Making Commons the means of production i.e. Social Ownership of the means of production. To be brought about by developments like 3D Printing, Urban Farming, Vertical Farming, Open Source computer hardware and software. Then there there is abolition of the traditional money system and bringing forth a new economic system such as the one I proposed in this thread. That there remain no economic classification : rich, middle and poor. Every person potentially having equal access to the goods and services in a society.​

​

b. Political change : An environment where the people rule themselves directly i.e. Direct Democracy which is guided by Leftist thought. Even Elon Musk wants Direct Democracy for near-future Mars settlements. Such a system I describe in this post and please also read there the interview of a Venezuelan.​

​

c. Social change : Firstly, obviously this will necessitate abolishing any traditional social structures that propagate injustice which in societies like India can mean family-promoted student suicides or honor killing or even in USA can be about casual acceptance of farmer suicides and multiple jobs to eke out an existence. Secondly, it has to be debated if the currently-most-basic social structure - the family - should be continued or an advancement of it should be introduced. It seems that the early USSR debated such a thing. We should consider what the social structure of near-future Mars settlements should be like.​

​

And all of these to be applied for all humanity.

And with reference to the above, my plan for my planned company is to produce a wearable computer with the two fundamental elements - the microprocessor and the operating system - being open source. I don't think in the near future anything can be entirely free so my proposed economic system takes care of this issue. So, from my company I will charge fee for the outer shell of the wearable computer but not for the microprocessor and OS. The wonderful sci-fi book Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson also has characters in it thinking up of an economic system for the people who have and will be settling Mars. I think my proposed economic system is a lot simpler. There is no split personality here.

2. The gentleman in your vid doesn't consider two things :

​

a. Communism in itself is not anti-production. The USSR existed for 69 years and was highly industrialized. Russia and those republics who became the USSR were largely peasant-agricultural societies before and became highly industrialized within a single generation. The USSR was a space superpower. What happened in Communist West Bengal was failure to implement industrialization. A local failure.​

​

b. Not having employee union doesn't automatically mean fantastic services or products. The Indian IT / ITES industry does not have employee union system. Unions in our IT / ITES industry are absent for two reasons :​

​

b1. The Indian Establishment colluded with these type of big Indian companies to discourage employees from forming unions.​

​

b2. Most of the employees in the Indian IT / ITES industry are selfish and non-intellectual people who cannot be bothered with humanist concern about their fellow worker. This became so because most of the companies in this specific industry are recent and so not connected with the progressive / socialist thought that was present in the country after Independence. And this can be contrasted with employee unions in banks, factories etc that were set up right after Independence. Neither was the education system having humanitarian studies therefore most of these middle class youth were just surrounded by immediate technical "education" without the thought to question any injustice or disparity in society, even in their education place or work place.​

​

The Indian IT / ITES industry is actually going against the Constitution which gives the right to citizens to form or join employee unions. And neither are the non-intellectual workers of this industry aware of this simple fact. I myself tried to set up an union in a company I worked in until mid-2014. Foolishly I quit the company. If I would have gone along it would have been the first employee union in the Indian IT / ITES industry.​

​

An employee union is necessary in a typical IT / ITES company in highly capitalist India.​

​

Also about the typical Indian IT worker being non-intellectual, there are 200,000+ computer engineers graduating out of Indian colleges every year. This has been so for the last 15 years. And some of these IT companies have existed for decades. Yet these fellow million engineers have not been able to locally design the two most important elements in any computer : the microprocessor and the operating system. These engineers don't desire the intellectual challenge in designing those.​

​

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Below are thoughts I can gather now :

1. I don't really know what are the full technicalities needed to be a Marxist. I had read a slim translation of 'The Communist Manifesto' but have forgotten it. But bear with me. What I know are the aims of Communism and below is how I want them to be :

​

a. Economic change : Making Commons the means of production i.e. Social Ownership of the means of production. To be brought about by developments like 3D Printing, Urban Farming, Vertical Farming, Open Source computer hardware and software. Then there there is abolition of the traditional money system and bringing forth a new economic system such as the one I proposed in this thread. That there remain no economic classification : rich, middle and poor. Every person potentially having equal access to the goods and services in a society.​

​

b. Political change : An environment where the people rule themselves directly i.e. Direct Democracy which is guided by Leftist thought. Even Elon Musk wants Direct Democracy for near-future Mars settlements. Such a system I describe in this post and please also read there the interview of a Venezuelan.​

​

c. Social change : Firstly, obviously this will necessitate abolishing any traditional social structures that propagate injustice which in societies like India can mean family-promoted student suicides or honor killing or even in USA can be about casual acceptance of farmer suicides and multiple jobs to eke out an existence. Secondly, it has to be debated if the currently-most-basic social structure - the family - should be continued or an advancement of it should be introduced. It seems that the early USSR debated such a thing. We should consider what the social structure of near-future Mars settlements should be like.​

​

And all of these to be applied for all humanity.

And with reference to the above, my plan for my planned company is to produce a wearable computer with the two fundamental elements - the microprocessor and the operating system - being open source. I don't think in the near future anything can be entirely free so my proposed economic system takes care of this issue. So, from my company I will charge fee for the outer shell of the wearable computer but not for the microprocessor and OS. The wonderful sci-fi book Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson also has characters in it thinking up of an economic system for the people who have and will be settling Mars. I think my proposed economic system is a lot simpler. There is no split personality here.

2. The gentleman in your vid doesn't consider two things :

​

a. Communism in itself is not anti-production. The USSR existed for 69 years and was highly industrialized. Russia and those republics who became the USSR were largely peasant-agricultural societies before and became highly industrialized within a single generation. The USSR was a space superpower. What happened in Communist West Bengal was failure to implement industrialization. A local failure.​

​

b. Not having employee union doesn't automatically mean fantastic services or products. The Indian IT / ITES industry does not have employee union system. Unions in our IT / ITES industry are absent for two reasons :​

​

b1. The Indian Establishment colluded with these type of big Indian companies to discourage employees from forming unions.​

​

b2. Most of the employees in the Indian IT / ITES industry are selfish and non-intellectual people who cannot be bothered with humanist concern about their fellow worker. This became so because most of the companies in this specific industry are recent and so not connected with the progressive / socialist thought that was present in the country after Independence. And this can be contrasted with employee unions in banks, factories etc that were set up right after Independence. Neither was the education system having humanitarian studies therefore most of these middle class youth were just surrounded by immediate technical "education" without the thought to question any injustice or disparity in society, even in their education place or work place.​

​

The Indian IT / ITES industry is actually going against the Constitution which gives the right to citizens to form or join employee unions. And neither are the non-intellectual workers of this industry aware of this simple fact. I myself tried to set up an union in a company I worked in until mid-2014. Foolishly I quit the company. If I would have gone along it would have been the first employee union in the Indian IT / ITES industry.​

​

An employee union is necessary in a typical IT / ITES company in highly capitalist India.​

​

Also about the typical Indian IT worker being non-intellectual, there are 200,000+ computer engineers graduating out of Indian colleges every year. This has been so for the last 15 years. And some of these IT companies have existed for decades. Yet these fellow million engineers have not been able to locally design the two most important elements in any computer : the microprocessor and the operating system. These engineers don't desire the intellectual challenge in designing those.​

​

I agree especially with the last part regarding low quality of our technical services and competence...West Bengal didnot industrialize for what I consider is the prime reason: too much population density

any new factories means acquiring farm lands....how to tackle this..complete female economic and sexual progress...so that women have complete autonomy over their own bodies...this will in turn reduce birth rate to below replacement (already in effect in many states)...and reduce population gradually....second..smart, vertical farming...brilliant post...will save it

 

[jamahir]

any new factories means acquiring farm lands....how to tackle this

1. That is easier in a socialist or communist society because the land is not privately owned but a Commons. Maintained perhaps by some committee in the governance system.

2. If a leftist movement / alliance came to power and spoke of building factories, the people whose land was acquired, can be trained to whatever practical learning limitation and be employed in those same factories.

3. We are on the cusp between traditional manufacturing ( moulding, smelting etc ) and 3D Printing. Even construction of houses is being mechanized through 3D Printed. Even rocket engines are being 3D Printed. So the workers whose land was taken to build factories, I think a good percentage can be retrained for new-style factories by further simplifying the manufacturing process.

complete female economic and sexual progress...so that women have complete autonomy over their own bodies...this will in turn reduce birth rate to below replacement (already in effect in many states)...and reduce population gradually

Do you think artificial wombs can be devised by the end of the 2030s ?

second..smart, vertical farming

And that can be complemented with Collective Farming. Say 20 individual farmers per five-storey automated VF.

Just yesterday I put on ABP News and they were interviewing the founder of BRIO Hydroponics, a progressive agri company in Ahmedabad that uses hydroponics to grow leafy vegetables under a plastic sheet dome. Let's imagine hydroponics for every type of agri product in a five-storey building which is computerized and mechanized.

brilliant post...will save it

Thank you.

 

[ApparentRaceTraitor]

@jamahir, quick question if I may on the subject of unions, wouldn't that be out of place in a socialist environment? And when in a capitalist society it is hard enough for a manager to deal with the unions on holding employees accountable, wouldn't the same system be grossly abused in a socialist environment?

 

[jamahir]

@jamahir, quick question if I may on the subject of unions, wouldn't that be out of place in a socialist environment? And when in a capitalist society it is hard enough for a manager to deal with the unions on holding employees accountable, wouldn't the same system be grossly abused in a socialist environment?

You are correct. A socialist or communist system is partly set up to emancipate the worker so it would be out of place for an employee union to exist in such a system. It would be redundant.

An enterprise in a socialist system ( clothing shop, software company, Vertical Farm etc ) will be a collectivized arrangement in which the workers are partners and not de-powered ( the opposite of "empowered" ) wage slaves like in capitalist enterprises.

If one of these partners has a complaint or suggestion they should be empowered to approach the COO directly. If the complaining person is not satisfied they should be allowed to approach some other element. All this with the condition / understanding that the complaining person has a genuine grievance.

However, what can exist are committees for a certain profession, like teacher or biochemist. These committees will exist for exchanging knowledge generated within a profession and for exchanging inter-disciplinary knowledge with people of other professions.