Tall claims and jibes: Modi's 3-nation tour showed weakness, not strength

[Ammyy]

So he buys the most expensive jets by quoting 'high costs' off the same jets as a deal breaker, and buys them at the highest possible costs, and that does not make the deal nonsensical?

20 Billion was the cost of 126 jets, now compare it with current purchase

 

[nik141991]

So he spent $6B on a nonsensical deal to buy Rafale.......because of UPA?

This government is on its way out, all the the thing modi trying to implement will take time & will start showing result at the end year of his tenure & will be boom to the new incoming government which I am quite sure won't be BJP

 

[Mike_Brando]

Ok, let me look into your pain in that thread!

View attachment 215732

Lol,that idiot Congressi stooge is calling you a "bhakt"!Man,this is really hilarious.I mean,if he had called me a bhakt it would have made sense but calling you(one of the sanest Indian posters in this forum) a bhakt only shows that he doesn't even have the slightest idea about the Indian members in this forum!!Anyway dada,i think it's better to ignore trolls like him

 

[dray]

Bhakt obviously has nothing substantial to defend his idol. So indulges in distraction. Shows that even the most hardened Bhakt is running out of arguments to defend Modiji Bhagwan.

Here is the reply to your other thread, posting it here also for your greater convenience.
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Rather, all the vendors should realize that ignoring India's demands may reduce their deal to 1/4th of the original deal.

Rafale was a classic management case of a company failing to assess the changing market conditions and trying to sell their hi-tech CRT TVs for top prices in the age of LED TVs. Let me summarize it point by point.

1. Rafale was one of the most modern and technologically advanced aircraft back in 2001 when the MMRCA deal was conceived. But it dragged on for close to one and a half decade without any sign of completion.

2. Even if the deal was completed by 2015 as per the original plan of importing 18 aircrafts and making the rest of 108 in India, HAL would have started delivering the aircrafts somewhere around 2022 or 2025 going by the complexity of the things and pace of its operation.

3. But by that time LCA MK-2 would have been in production, more importantly, the more advanced 5th generation PAK-FA/FGFA jointly being developed by India and Russia would be in production, needless to say that with ToT and source codes.

4. So, essentially Rafale would have become an old design by the time it would have been in production in India. More importantly, our 5th gen FGFAs would have been similarly priced against Rafale, further making the Rafale a bad deal.

5. Considering the situation, it does not make sense to order Rafale in such big numbers when we will have better alternatives during the same timeline, give and take 2-3 years maximum.

6. Neither it makes any sense to pay top dollars for the FULL ToT of a rather old 4th gen aircraft design, it will be much more cheaper for us to buy separately the technologies that we need from French or other sources, like technologies for fighter jet engines, radar, etc.

7. At the same time, we cannot ignore the fast depleting strength of our air force. Hence, the 36 Rafale deal to just plug the hole for the time being, a hole that was created by the previous government by its indecision and utter lack of pro-activeness.

I hope I have answered your queries and concerns to your full satisfaction.

Feel free to reply for any further queries and/or clarification that you might have, I will be happy to help you.

Thank you.

 

[Levina]

Now Bhakt will put hand right up the rear to come up with new stuff to defend the rafale. Here's the link Bhakt. Now let's pretend you know so much more about defence than Ajay Shukla that some random stuff from you is enough to discredit his analysis.

Rafale deal: Modi's Parisian blunder

Did you just call @Rain Man a modi bhakt???
Phuleezz! Anyone but not him!
I think I know Dray too well by now and he is definitely not a Modi bhakt, au contraire he borders near being a political mugwump.

Lol,that idiot Congressi stooge is calling you a "bhakt"!Man,this is really hilarious.I mean,if he had called me a bhakt it would have made sense but calling you(one of the sanest Indian posters in this forum) a bhakt only shows that he doesn't even have the slightest idea about the Indian members in this forum!!Anyway dada,i think it's better to ignore trolls like him

Lol
@Guynextdoor2 did make a blunder this time. But lets not call him a troll, its okay to have someone who opposes our views and is ready for a healthy debate.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Did you just call @Rain Man a modi bhakt???
Phuleezz! Anyone but not him!
I think I know Dray too well by now and he is definitely not a Modi bhakt, au contraire he borders near being a political mugwump.


Lol
@Guynextdoor2 did make a blunder this time. But lets not call him a troll, its okay to have someone who opposes our views and is ready for a healthy debate.

I think thos days are gone. The day he defended TRAI against Net neutrality he became a Bhakt in substance. Like a chameleon he changed colors to support Net Neutrality, but that came later.

Here is the reply to your other thread, posting it here also for your greater convenience.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rather, all the vendors should realize that ignoring India's demands may reduce their deal to 1/4th of the original deal.

Rafale was a classic management case of a company failing to assess the changing market conditions and trying to sell their hi-tech CRT TVs for top prices in the age of LED TVs. Let me summarize it point by point.

1. Rafale was one of the most modern and technologically advanced aircraft back in 2001 when the MMRCA deal was conceived. But it dragged on for close to one and a half decade without any sign of completion.

2. Even if the deal was completed by 2015 as per the original plan of importing 18 aircrafts and making the rest of 108 in India, HAL would have started delivering the aircrafts somewhere around 2022 or 2025 going by the complexity of the things and pace of its operation.

3. But by that time LCA MK-2 would have been in production, more importantly, the more advanced 5th generation PAK-FA/FGFA jointly being developed by India and Russia would be in production, needless to say that with ToT and source codes.

4. So, essentially Rafale would have become an old design by the time it would have been in production in India. More importantly, our 5th gen FGFAs would have been similarly priced against Rafale, further making the Rafale a bad deal.

5. Considering the situation, it does not make sense to order Rafale in such big numbers when we will have better alternatives during the same timeline, give and take 2-3 years maximum.

6. Neither it makes any sense to pay top dollars for the FULL ToT of a rather old 4th gen aircraft design, it will be much more cheaper for us to buy separately the technologies that we need from French or other sources, like technologies for fighter jet engines, radar, etc.

7. At the same time, we cannot ignore the fast depleting strength of our air force. Hence, the 36 Rafale deal to just plug the hole for the time being, a hole that was created by the previous government by its indecision and utter lack of pro-activeness.

I hope I have answered your queries and concerns to your full satisfaction.

Feel free to reply for any further queries and/or clarification that you might have, I will be happy to help you.

Thank you.

And here's my reply as given in the other thread.
yeah you answered me to my satisfaction alright. I knew you'd pull stuff out of your rear and you did. I'm happy that you typed all this thinking you're saying something important.
- rafale is medium class jet and has no relationship with FGFA (heavy) or LCA (light)
- All jets that participated in the competition are more than 15 years old (one is more than 40 years old). the question is about avionincs and frame being of AF's importance.
-36 rafale jets were singed ONLY for modi to look good in the summit. hectic 3 week negos were done only to make sure that he looked good there
-tHE 36 Jet deal was both dumb and expensive

 

[dray]

I think thos days are gone. The day he defended TRAI against Net neutrality he became a Bhakt in substance. Like a chameleon he changed colors to support Net Neutrality, but that came later.

I DID NOT defend TRAI against net nutrality, it's unfortunate that now you are resorting to lies, you used to be better than this.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

I DID NOT defend TRAI against net nutrality, it's unfortunate that now you are resorting to lies, you used to be better than this.

Suuuuuuuuurrrrrreee..............I remember your resplendent enthusiasm that day.

 

[Mr.Nair]

Why can't those oppose modi didn't show the same passion to oppose in the case of Owaisi !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SamantK]

This moron takes a dumb turn when it comes to everything Modi does, he makes it look like MMS was much better than Modi.

 

[dray]

And here's my reply as given in the other thread.
yeah you answered me to my satisfaction alright. I knew you'd pull stuff out of your rear and you did. I'm happy that you typed all this thinking you're saying something important.
- rafale is medium class jet and has no relationship with FGFA (heavy) or LCA (light)
- All jets that participated in the competition are more than 15 years old (one is more than 40 years old). the question is about avionincs and frame being of AF's importance.
-36 rafale jets were singed ONLY for modi to look good in the summit. hectic 3 week negos were done only to make sure that he looked good there
-tHE 36 Jet deal was both dumb and expensive

And here is mine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh dear! I think you need further help.

First, fighter jets are not boxers or wrestlers whom you should categorize by weight, the classification is more to do with the cost of purchase and cost of operation, and there won't be much difference between the older Rafale and more advanced 5th gen FGFA in this regard.

Second, LCA MK-2 version won't be a lightweight either.

Third, we already have developed quite advanced avionics that we can develop further with the help of Israelis or even the French at a much lower cost.

Fourth, Rafale airframe design is already old, we are getting a far more advanced airframe design with OUR OWN FGFA. So, we don't really need to bear that extra cost for ToT of Rafale airframe design.

Fifth, there should be no doubt in anybody's mind that we urgently need to plug the gap in our airforce, a small number of Rafale at a lower cost can do the job nicely for the time being. We do have better options for the future.

I am sure now you will be fully satisfied with the answers as I have quenched your thirst for knowledge.

 

[Mr.Nair]

This moron takes a dumb turn when it comes to everything Modi does, he makes it look like MMS was much better than Modi.

Sorry modi, we don't need any pakis or bengalis to spill venom, but our own brothers are more foe than said category.

 

[dray]

Suuuuuuuuurrrrrreee..............I remember your resplendent enthusiasm that day.

quote me then.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

And here is mine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh dear! I think you need further help.

First, fighter jets are not boxers or wrestlers whom you should categorize by weight, the classification is more to do with the cost of purchase and cost of operation, and there won't be much difference between the older Rafale and more advanced 5th gen FGFA in this regard.

Second, LCA MK-2 version won't be a lightweight either.

Third, we already have developed quite advanced avionics that we can develop further with the help of Israelis or even the French at a much lower cost.

Fourth, Rafale airframe design is already old, we are getting a far more advanced airframe design with OUR OWN FGFA. So, we don't really need to bear that extra cost for ToT of Rafale airframe design.

Fifth, there should be no doubt in anybody's mind that we urgently need to plug the gap in our airforce, a small number of Rafale at a lower cost can do the job nicely for the time being. We do have better options for the future.

I am sure now you will be fully satisfied with the answers as I have quenched your thirst for knowledge.

yeah, more BS don't make the original BS you have written and less BSy. Don't tell anyone in the AF that you're comparing Rafale Af wiith FGFA AF, they'll laugh . And you just decided to mixup the figher classes on your own . You're suggesting a point defence fighter with low loitering time to replace a medium class fighter? Other a deep penetration and strike fighter with a medium role fighter. Man the stuff you need to cook up to defend these is just AMAZING . And like I said, all fighters in the competition are more than 15 years old.

quote me then.

I will on Monday for sure

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Hmmmmmmmmmm
Well I am dilettante when it comes to commenting on economic policies but there're few things that Modi has changed as an Indian PM in his 3 country visit. Modi was the first PM to visit Neuve-Chapelle war memorial in Lille and to pay homage to Indian soldiers who were martyred in WWI.
I liked the way Modi said "a permanent seat in UNSC is India's right", the G-4 nations 're working towards bringing an end to American hegemony.
Rafale deal has been kept under wraps so you and me can merely speculate on its pros and cons and RFP. But lets not forget that 7.5yrs of AK Antony's DMship had caused long delays in defence deals, the present government has to help the forces catch up and ergo some desperate measures 're inevitable, Rafale deal is one of them.
After a really long time we 've found a leader with such gravitas. No leader (none in recent history ) has been able to unite India the way Modi has. To me Modi stands next to Indira Gandhi when it comes to leadership.
There's no doubt that the present govt will reap the benefits of UPA's deeds, but lets give 'em (BJP) credit where its due, they 've sped up the decision-making process, UPA was moving at tortoise's pace.

Bhakt. @Guynextdoor2 bash her please.