Special bench orders putting off all Supreme Court suo motu cases

[NooriNuth]

What a joke this supreme court is.
I miss pervez musharraf. He foresaw all this and wanted to limit power of Cheif justice.

 

[Asimzranger]

What a joke this supreme court is.
I miss pervez musharraf. He foresaw all this and wanted to limit power of Cheif justice.

If only he stood his ground and didn't gave them nro

 

[AA_]

Saw this on IG

 

[Jango]

Saw this on IG

Haan bas lag pata gaya hai phir Supreme Court ko yeh kehne kay bad.

But I fully agree, how can the Army refuse to do something?

 

[imadul]

IK is but a spark. He by himself can't do much as has been evident thus far especially given every single govt and non-govt agency against him and his party.

It's high time that the people of Pakistan that bad mouth Israelis every day learn something from them and protest for their rights. Else they can shut up and enjoy watching their grandkids endure slavery.

...
Yes, people has come out and have faces brutalities.
But yes, masses should come out.
Students play big role. Young ppl have energy and courage.
Demonstrations in the garrison city of pindi will have a big symbolic impact.

 

[HerbertPervert]

They can claim whatever they want but The Supreme Court, and not the legislature, is the final authority when it comes to 'interpretation of the Constitution' ... If law of the land is followed, such a bill/law that reverses SC larger bench interpretation of a constitutional clause would be instantly struck down.

The Indian Supreme Court, for example, has more than once struck down even constitutional amendments (forget about a bill/law) on the grounds that they contradicted with the basic structure of the constitution .. We are far behind ..

Regarding this topic, what do you think would happen if Imran Khan held a public referendum to change Pakistan into a presidential government?

I've heard someone say it could be struck down because it's unconstitutional? If so, what are the procedures, if any, to abrogate and nullify the constitution in order to draft a new one? Will the Supreme Court act against public will & mandate in these scenarios?

Not in PMLN's control, rather in their handlers' control, who can compel them to open court at midnight.

There are judges in PMLN control, probably hand-picked batches to ensure for the next few years, that PMLN members will never be convicted. Sindh has the same setup for PPP, that's why you'd find it's members in hospitals rather than jails. The only time this system does not benefit them is when establishment pressures these judges.

Imran doesn't understand that in Pakistan, there's no such thing as independent & unbiased judiciary, media, or bureacrats. They are either on someone's payroll, or they have soft spot for someone, or their life is under threat by that someone.

This is why I would strongly advise Imran to retire all boomer judges, police, bureacrats. You cannot have Naya Pakistan with faces from Purana Pakistan.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Regarding this topic, what do you think would happen if Imran Khan held a public referendum to change Pakistan into a presidential government?

I've heard someone say it could be struck down because it's unconstitutional? If so, what are the procedures, if any, to abrogate and nullify the constitution in order to draft a new one? Will the Supreme Court act against public will & mandate in these scenarios?

After the 18th amendment, a PM can not hold a public referendum without obtaining approval from the Parliament (joint sitting of NA and Senate) first

As per the Supreme Court of Pakistan, parliamentary system of government is one of the four pillars of the constitution (other 3 being Islam, Federation and Democracy) So, the SC will most probably strike down any such amendment that tries to change the basic structure of the constitution by replacing the parliamentary system with a presidential one. The SC has number of times interpreted constitutional clauses based on pre-amendment understanding of the text.

However, unlike the previous constitutions, there is nothing in the 1973 constitution itself which tells us that it cannot be amended or even scraped if two-thirds of the membership of both houses vote for it. But scraping the current constitution and enacting a new one in its place (through a new constituent assembly) that would be acceptable to all Federation units seems next to impossible. And that's another reason the SC will not let that happen

 

[Ssan]

After the 18th amendment, a PM can not hold a public referendum without obtaining approval from the Parliament (joint sitting of NA and Senate) first

As per the Supreme Court of Pakistan, parliamentary system of government is one of the four pillars of the constitution (other 3 being Islam, Federation and Democracy) So, the SC will most probably strike down any such amendment that tries to change the basic structure of the constitution by replacing the parliamentary system with a presidential one. The SC has number of times interpreted constitutional clauses based on pre-amendment understanding of the text.

However, unlike the previous constitutions, there is nothing in the 1973 constitution itself which tells us that it cannot be amended or even scraped if two-thirds of the membership of both houses vote for it. But scraping the current constitution and enacting a new one in its place (through a new constituent assembly) that would be acceptable to all Federation units seems next to impossible. And that's another reason the SC will not let that happen

Tbh, that our constitution in its basic structure is parliamentary is suspect to start out with. That it cannot be amended to become a presidential system is likewise suspect.

Other countries, like say Turkey, have changed their constitutions to go from parliamentary system to a presidential one.

For Pakistan, we probably could move to a presidential system if we can pass the amendment with 2/3rds majority. Unless you have some ideological person sitting in the bench, it will be hard to justify blocking that.

Regarding this topic, what do you think would happen if Imran Khan held a public referendum to change Pakistan into a presidential government?

I've heard someone say it could be struck down because it's unconstitutional? If so, what are the procedures, if any, to abrogate and nullify the constitution in order to draft a new one? Will the Supreme Court act against public will & mandate in these scenarios?

There are judges in PMLN control, probably hand-picked batches to ensure for the next few years, that PMLN members will never be convicted. Sindh has the same setup for PPP, that's why you'd find it's members in hospitals rather than jails. The only time this system does not benefit them is when establishment pressures these judges.

Imran doesn't understand that in Pakistan, there's no such thing as independent & unbiased judiciary, media, or bureacrats. They are either on someone's payroll, or they have soft spot for someone, or their life is under threat by that someone.

This is why I would strongly advise Imran to retire all boomer judges, police, bureacrats. You cannot have Naya Pakistan with faces from Purana Pakistan.

I think we have lack of clarity on whether a referendum is a pathway to amending the constitution. I don’t know which article explicitly lays this out. It can be used to pass laws sure, but amending the constitution is unclear. After 18th amendment, it almost doesn’t make sense to use referendum to amend laws because you might as well just use the parliament if you have to get a majority in parliament to hold he referendum in he first place.

 

[Neelo]

I still think IK did the right thing resigning from assemblies.

Over time the boomers will hit the grave the Gen X, Y, millennials will form the majority of the adult population. Demographically speaking the PDM are already dying a slow death.

The trick is to keep knocking sense into the young population that the country needs rule of law. Meaning from Chief Chaprasi Grade 22 officer se le kar Politicians, all are answerable to the rule of law.

In regards to the bolded part, it’s no doubt that 80% of Amritsari PMLN League’s support comes from middle aged central Punjabi conservative men in the lower classes. This is the sole reason why PMLN never invested in education in rural Punjab….keeping the population dumb only helped them. This is why when PMLN paved a road they’d get away with calling it a “gift” and the locals would get so happy about it. Talk about keeping the bar low. I didn’t know you could gift someone something with their OWN taxes!

As the years go by, PMLN vote base will naturally die off….that being said…one factor isn’t being highlighted.

PMLN is not only popular among some of the poorer uneducated classes in Punjab but also among the filthy rich elite classes, especially Lahore.

I know this very well because I know several elites within my circle and all their bastard children support PMLN. I’m talking about NCA and LUMS burger bachay…English Kwik e Mart accented speaking so-called “liberals” and “progressives” who support LGBTQ movements in Pakistan and Aurat March and claim the Establishment put Imran Khan in to power….they claimed he was a Islamist and a Nazi and basically regurgitated all the American propaganda to try and discredit his popularity.

You know who these people are…these are folks who write for Dawn and Express Tribune…Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy and Maria B types…who pretend to be all progressive and liberal on their faces, but in reality are regressive and power hungry.

They hate Imran Khan simply because his government was cracking down on corruption…and because all of their families earned their haram dirty money under PMLN governments in the past. Through this they were able to gain wealth, power and privilege! This is why they hate Imran Khan and refuse to support PTI.

If Imran Khan is allowed to remain in power, their wealth and privilege goes down the drain.

And this can be proven simply by each of you looking through your friend list…notice the filthy rich ones all support PMLN. All of a sudden now the Establishment is halal…the PDM is so progressive and liberal……so progressive that one of its members believes that earthquakes are caused by women wearing jeans.

Now this doesn’t mean ALL of them are like that…but generally that’s what I’ve noticed.

 

[HerbertPervert]

After the 18th amendment, a PM can not hold a public referendum without obtaining approval from the Parliament (joint sitting of NA and Senate) first

As per the Supreme Court of Pakistan, parliamentary system of government is one of the four pillars of the constitution (other 3 being Islam, Federation and Democracy) So, the SC will most probably strike down any such amendment that tries to change the basic structure of the constitution by replacing the parliamentary system with a presidential one. The SC has number of times interpreted constitutional clauses based on pre-amendment understanding of the text.

However, unlike the previous constitutions, there is nothing in the 1973 constitution itself which tells us that it cannot be amended or even scraped if two-thirds of the membership of both houses vote for it. But scraping the current constitution and enacting a new one in its place (through a new constituent assembly) that would be acceptable to all Federation units seems next to impossible. And that's another reason the SC will not let that happen

So it seems the way to change to presidential form of governance is to use 2/3 parliament majority to scrap the constitution itself? If not, then this is problematic as a judge can override the mandate of the entire population.

Tbh, that our constitution in its basic structure is parliamentary is suspect to start out with. That it cannot be amended to become a presidential system is likewise suspect.

Other countries, like say Turkey, have changed their constitutions to go from parliamentary system to a presidential one.

For Pakistan, we probably could move to a presidential system if we can pass the amendment with 2/3rds majority. Unless you have some ideological person sitting in the bench, it will be hard to justify blocking that.


I think we have lack of clarity on whether a referendum is a pathway to amending the constitution. I don’t know which article explicitly lays this out. It can be used to pass laws sure, but amending the constitution is unclear. After 18th amendment, it almost doesn’t make sense to use referendum to amend laws because you might as well just use the parliament if you have to get a majority in parliament to hold he referendum in he first place.

I feel the easier way to do this is to not explicitly change to presidential system, but mutate the parliamentary system in such a way that it resembles presidential system. For example:

1. Prime Minister will be empowered and elected directly by people.
2. He no longer needs to form a cabinet with elected yet unqualified parliamentarians, but can instead recruit unelected technocrats to run finance ministry, etc. This will end blackmail.
3. MPA or MNA do not handle funding or governance, but are there only to legislate laws.

 

[M. Sarmad]

So it seems the way to change to presidential form of governance is to use 2/3 parliament majority to scrap the constitution itself? If not, then this is problematic as a judge can override the mandate of the entire population.

Yes, that's the ideal way for us to switch to presidential form of governance ... Any amendments to the current constitution to that end, even if they get the judicial nod (and that's a big if), will probably lead to more confusion (and contradictions) ...

 

[xyxmt]

that also against our own.

that is the only time they win

 

[PakLeader]

Unfortunately the whole system has become so corrupt and dysfunctional that it cannot work and has to be gutted and completely replaced. Corruption has permeated each and every institution. To take an example from Star Trek...all institutions have been assimilated by Corruption and resistance is futile.

What we are seeing is resistance from the beneficiaries of the system who will go to any means to save this rotten, decomposing system as it is their bread and butter.

Imran Khan represents a glimmer of hope to the people for change, that things can get better and those who have raped this country will be held to account and brought to justice. So it is obvious that all the corrupt across all institutions, elected, judiciary, military and civil service have banded together to stop him at any cost and save the system that only benefits them and not the people of Pakistan.

The sooner the public realizes that they are the ones who hold true power the sooner things will change. What is needed now is not reforms but a revolution. People need to get out and throw out these corrupt mafias. Unfortunately our public is asleep half the time and not willing to stand up for their rights or do anything about it. A few protests here and there then chalo ghar te roti Khao te so jao. That's what our history has been and what all these chors are counting on. That the public will make some noise for a bit and then just forget about it and go back to their old ways and accept that yahan to bus aisa hi hota hai. Imran Khan is an annoyance to the establishment and imported government as he is keeping the people awake and reminding them of their rights.

People of Pakistan wake the F*** up! Your situation will not change until you make an effort to change it. Without sacrifice there will be no reward.

 

[muhammadhafeezmalik]

Aur yeh Faiz Esa ko ab yeh yad aya hai after 14 months? 2 saal pehle Faez Isa sahab suo motu kay fazayel bata rahay thay.

Right when there is so much going on with the SC and the CJP in particular?

Aur aap ki hakoomat ko bhi saal bad yad aya hai keh Faiz Esa kay khilaf reference fake hai to usay withdraw kar lain?



The fact that you have to cite an instance from a dictatorial era says it all.

جب چیف جسٹس سال بھر سینئر ترین ججز کو کسی اہم مقدمے میں شامل نہ کرے اور اپنی الگ تین اینٹ کی سپریم کورٹ بنا لے تو باقی ججوں کو ایکشن لینا ہی پڑے گا ، ایک ایسے مقدمے میں شامل کیا جس میں مولویوں سے گالیاں کھانے کا بھرپور چانس تھا تو قاضی عیسیٰ کا کہنا بنتا تھا اس مقدمے میں خود کیوں نہیں بیٹھے؟؟​

I heard the oddest suggestion today through the usual pti uncle forwards - that at the rate the institutions are both at loggerheads and in total consternation shock and if this was more a revisionist(read rebellious) movement PTI could consider setting up a provisional “second government” in KP if the elections get delayed further - basically set up a parallel system and refuse to recognize the courts in Pakistan.

This would literally end the authority of Pakistan as a state in general and much like 71 set up a second “state” which people(including like minded ones in institutions) could align to.

Such actions would literally allow PTi to declare the courts invalid and basically remove any and all legal power available to the PDM government. In a way it would also be the informal signal to a civil war in Pakistan.
Extreme measures going around in whatsapp these days.

Sufi Muhammad Model, I have restricted myself by saying TTP model as it would offend some mods.

 

[Jango]

جب چیف جسٹس سال بھر سینئر ترین ججز کو کسی اہم مقدمے میں شامل نہ کرے اور اپنی الگ تین اینٹ کی سپریم کورٹ بنا لے تو باقی ججوں کو ایکشن لینا ہی پڑے گا ، ایک ایسے مقدمے میں شامل کیا جس میں مولویوں سے گالیاں کھانے کا بھرپور چانس تھا تو قاضی عیسیٰ کا کہنا بنتا تھا اس مقدمے میں خود کیوں نہیں بیٹھے؟؟​

As if that just happened today and not since a few years.