SOUTH AFRICA BLOCKS NEW ARMS TRANSFERS TO SAUDI ARABIA AND UAE

[denel]

And what are they doing in UAE ?

Sitting with their billions.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Sitting with their billions.

Any Attempts to take their Custody from the UAE Govt ? Whoever SA wants to sell its weapons its their choice, because its an independent country with independence Foreign policy . I hope the matter is resolve , but Idon't like the countries who gave Asylum and shelter to those who steal billions of dollars from their home countries or murder thousands of their own and later go and hide in some other country which protects them.

 

[denel]

No. Pak is a completely seperate case. There is good understanding between government and transactions are well sanctioned. In case of KSA/UAE - the reason is very categoric highlighting of public pressure on what was happening in Yemen in the news and huge expose on how Denel weaponary was being used. Had it not been for civilian tragedies which KSA/UAE were doing with both RSA/US/UK weaponry.

In Pak's case there is complete oversight on what the use is; it is for military use against a well armed opponent and not against civilians.

All the UAE/KSA factories have denel's fingerprints all over the place. I am not against assisting KSA/UAE but their purpose of end use as we saw in Yemen is where I too have drawn the line.

I give my blessing for any transfers to Pak. No issues.

However I dont understand why Oman. I have been there on few trips and it is above board.


UAE needs to return the bastard Guptas.

I do think they will work something out eventually with KSA/AUE

Any Attempts to take their Custody from the UAE Govt ? Whoever SA wants to sell its weapons its their choice, because its an independent country with independence Foreign policy . I hope the matter is resolve , but Idon't like the countries who gave Asylum and shelter to those who steal billions of dollars from their home countries or murder thousands of their own and later go and hide in some other country which protects them.

It is just a matter of time, Ramaphosa is promising to get them back to face trials. These guys come here, get naturalisation - even that process they circumvented somehow. yet continue to move forward to steal like there was no tomorrow. Now, latest news is they are targetting Uzbekistan with some massive university scheme. Man, amazing

 

[Philip the Arab]

"DENEL GOES BANKRUPT AFTER GOV FAILS TO BAIL THEM OUT"
@denel
UAE/KSA will simply turn to other nations, and **** up Denel.
UAE will soon not rely on RSA whatsoever. All of these weapons on pylons were developed without partnership with a foreign nation.
Forgot to mention, Denel had a whole revenue of 251 million USD in 2019, and UAE company Halcon has a 1 billion dollar revenue. 1 UAE company makes more revenue than all of Denel, let that sink in.
The government-owned company reported revenue of ZAR3.8 billion (USD251 million) in fiscal year 2019, down from ZAR5.8 billion (USD386 million) the previous year.

Halcon, a unit of the UAE's new defence giant EDGE, has signed a $1 billion contract to deliver its Desert Sting-16 range of precision guided weapons to the UAE Armed Forces.

They should buy turkish.

They are developing indigenous industries, and KSA stole something like 20 Denel engineers, and docuents.
https://city-press.news24.com/News/...olen-and-given-to-saudi-arms-company-20191118

Reverse engineering may already be happening. KSA developed "Matar-4" similar to Mokopa in almost all aspects and I'm sure Denel never gave TOT.

 

[Turan09]

That happens when you start a war you couldn't win, without having a real defence Industry... First americans embargoed them so they came to Turkish state for TEBER and now this... They have money. But money is not enough for independence.
@Philip the Arab South Africa has a decent defence Industry. It is too early for you to compare it with UAE or saudi... If they work hard maybe after 40 years you can compare. Just a propeller plane and some smart bombs doesn't create a defence Industry.

 

[dalvash]

..............Waiting for UAE minister to threat S.Africa

Fat arab pigs don't do anything without permission from US and Israel.

 

[Philip the Arab]

@Philip the Arab South Africa has a decent defence Industry. It is too early for you to compare it with UAE or saudi... If they work hard maybe after 40 years you can compare. Just a propeller plane and some smart bombs doesn't create a defence Industry.

Comparing revenues is a good indicator. As I said, one company has more revenue than all of Denel. Don't you think that's kind of sad?

What do you define as a defense industry?

 

[Turan09]

Comparing revenues is a good indicator. As I said, one company has more revenue than all of Denel. Don't you think that's kind of sad?

What do you define as a defense industry?

I don't define it as ''revenue'' thats for sure... Knowledge is the real power. Today Ukraine defence firms has some financial problems. But no one can deny that they have a great knowlege and production capacity. Can you compare UAE with them too?
Defence Industry also known as ''War Industry'' is the capacity of a country to produce her own weapon systems. South Africa produce attack helicopters, SAM's, armoured cars and so on... You can't compare it with UAE who could only produce a propeller plane and some smart bombs... It would be an insult for South Africa. (Thought quality of South African weapons are questionable they are still pretty above all this arabs countries combined.)

 

[Philip the Arab]

I don't define it as ''revenue'' thats for sure... Knowledge is the real power. Today Ukraine defence firms has some financial problems. But no one can deny that they have a great knowlege and production capacity. Can you compare UAE with them too?
Defence Industry also known as ''War Industry'' is the capacity of a country to produce her own weapon systems. South Africa produce attack helicopters, SAM's, armoured cars and so on... You can't compare it with UAE who could only produce a propeller plane and some smart bombs... It would be an insult for South Africa. (Thought quality of South African weapons are questionable they are still pretty above all this arabs countries combined.)

For now, if consistent money is put in for next 10 years there will be many, many changes in that time period. We don't know what is going on because they aren't publicized compared to Turkish projects. South Africa was much calmer than MENA in past 15 years, and had a need to produce weapons because there was an embargo against in for a long time which was non-existent for KSA and UAE. Now there is no embargo and projects are slowing down in South Africa while Arab projects are expanding exponentially. When you have a large talent pool, and a lot of money the sky is the limit.

 

[Timur]

They should buy turkish.

they would rather buy poo than your stuff.. at least they have more dignity than some ppl hoping to hug those slimy slugs..

Whoever SA wants to sell its weapons its their choice

I didnt follow this your discussion.. you cant sell your " guns " whoever you wish if you do not make them like stingers ... they are being count by US and being watched.. selling weapons you wich you dindt produce by yourself could cause serious problems..

 

[khanasifm]

All the lgb kits displayed in Dubai now are out

 

[Turan09]

For now, if consistent money is put in for next 10 years there will be many, many changes in that time period. We don't know what is going on because they aren't publicized compared to Turkish projects. South Africa was much calmer than MENA in past 15 years, and had a need to produce weapons because there was an embargo against in for a long time which was non-existent for KSA and UAE. Now there is no embargo and projects are slowing down in South Africa while Arab projects are expanding exponentially. When you have a large talent pool, and a lot of money the sky is the limit.

Like I said, lets see what will happen after 20-40 years.

they would rather buy poo than your stuff.. at least they have more dignity than some ppl hoping to hug those slimy slugs..



I didnt follow this your discussion.. you cant sell your " guns " whoever you wish if you do not make them like stingers ... they are being count by US and being watched.. selling weapons you wich you dindt produce by yourself could cause serious problems..

Well, they came to Turkish State for TEBER. So there is a chance. Thought I personly don't want to see Turkish Weapons on this Bedouins hands. Still money is sweet Unfortunately.
And yes, I think they believe once you pay for product you can sell it or use it as you wish. This are weapons, not Iphones. Some countries doesn't want to see their weapons in the terrorists hands... They should understand this simple fact, Before blame the others.

 

[denel]

That happens when you start a war you couldn't win, without having a real defence Industry... First americans embargoed them so they came to Turkish state for TEBER and now this... They have money. But money is not enough for independence.
@Philip the Arab South Africa has a decent defence Industry. It is too early for you to compare it with UAE or saudi... If they work hard maybe after 40 years you can compare. Just a propeller plane and some smart bombs doesn't create a defence Industry.

Indeed, he thinks our industry was born overnight. It has been there for many decades since 1930's. He is on my ignore list and i cannot get to his camel level; not wasting my time. Throwing money wont get you the knowledge, people must have gray cells; something these people fail to see over millenium. Some of the folks were paid to get the IP which is where the problem has started from. Like I said before, we have founded their backbone for 'their' industry - yet all R&D with prototyping is still being done here; all lock stock knock down kits go from here just to be assembled and labelled there.
Matter will be resolved; not a big deal.

Like I said, lets see what will happen after 20-40 years.


Well, they came to Turkish State for TEBER. So there is a chance. Thought I personly don't want to see Turkish Weapons on this Bedouins hands. Still money is sweet Unfortunately.
And yes, I think they believe once you pay for product you can sell it or use it as you wish. This are weapons, not Iphones. Some countries doesn't want to see their weapons in the terrorists hands... They should understand this simple fact, Before blame the others.

Yes, but problem in Erdogan has ego and KSA/UAE are at odds against his vision.

The issue is very clearly because of prior incidents in Rwanda that we are seeing this come up when tonnes of weapons showed up with the Tutsis under Kagame via Uganda.

 

[Philip the Arab]

All of these UAE weapons developed to the best of my knowledge independently without JV and especially without South Africa.
@denel can shove it

Thunder P32

Thunder P4

Desert Sting 5

Desert Sting 16

Desert Sting 35

The two missiles behind the Desert Sting 16 are called Giant-4EP and Giant-4SFP but aren't listed on Halcon website so must be in very earl development.

@Turan09
The main thing South Africa was selling UAE was long range bombs(40km and 120km range). UAE can't produce those right now but I'm sure can probably produce something similar if it really wants in a few years. No clue if seeker is indigenous, but I know seeker must have been given via TOT because company has blueprints. 1 billion dollar deal at Dubai airshow 2019 will expand everything from employees, to production, and opens up funding for R&D, and could allow Halcon to focus on new products and eventually become UAE version of Roketsan.

 

[Mugwop]

@denel
Someone should make a thread about guptas in UAE,I would but you are more well informed then me on the issue.