Smoothbore Vs Rifled Gun: Arjun MkII future

[AMCA]

my sincere appology on that. Unable to post the links from my device.

now if you dont mind, kindly enlighten me with your valuable input on thread topic.



Thank you for your valuable inputs. From your post can i assume that Arjun mkII has better kill range and first kill probability than its adverseries at long range sniping warfare. The same advantage western tanks specially Usa M1 Abrahams and Israeli Merkavas shown during recent tank battles with armies equipped with Russian MBTs.

Indeed. I read it somewhere that the Arjun MBT can precisely fire at a target the size of a suitcase from a distance of 2 KM on move.

 

[ANPP]

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Thank you for your valuable inputs. From your post can i assume that Arjun mkII has better kill range and first kill probability than its adverseries at long range sniping warfare. The same advantage western tanks specially Usa M1 Abrahams and Israeli Merkavas shown during recent tank battles with armies equipped with Russian MBTs.

Not just mk2 but also in mk1. As Arjun had prove it gun accuracy in trials against Bhisma. But ATM can change gamebut are too costly. But in real warfare other things also impact on results. In Iraq, tanks as well as their tactics were too old which at last provide profit to allied force in locating their enemy.

Yes, my worlds were clear that Arjun has advantage on long range snipping especially in flat surfaces, it will be nightmare for enemy tanks.

But one more thing which I forget in my last post that rifled guns are too costly and also need more precision whole manufacturing. Cost is real issue as Arjun to much costly than Bhisma.

One more thing, in last one said that rounds tends to lose more,energy in rifled gun. But in actual it is opposite. Smoothbore leaches too much energy than rifled guns.

Seeing the future,I think rifled guns have bright future in tanks, especially when militaries will field tanks which really on active protection rather than conventional armour but ofcourse not in current form.

 

[a.kumar]

Why People forget that Arjun has been tested rigorously against T-90 Tanks , and has proved its mettle , it has taken direct Hit from T-90 tank and has survived , same cannot be said of T-90.. Other craps and their copies like T-96A and MBT-2000 or T-85 will be buried because T-90 has fired almost every round of ammunition used by Chinese and pakistani on their tanks together on Arjun and it has survived .

People comparing Rifle Gun vs Smooth bore please study some documentaries on Gulf Wars , where British Challenger Tank took out T-72s from 5 km and still has that record and came out with Zero Casualties , while American M1 Abrams which has a Smooth bore was effective , but took dozen casualties . but it was Challenger which won the Race in Gulf war and proved its high accuracy target hitting capability .

 

[Sulman Badshah]

Both guns have their own advantages

Rifled gun gives better range and pressure

while smooth bore gun gives better Punch and service life

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Why People forget that Arjun has been tested rigorously against T-90 Tanks , and has proved its mettle , it has taken direct Hit from T-90 tank and has survived , same cannot be said of T-90.. Other craps and their copies like T-96A and MBT-2000 or T-85 will be buried because T-90 has fired almost every round of ammunition used by Chinese and pakistani on their tanks together on Arjun and it has survived .

People comparing Rifle Gun vs Smooth bore please study some documentaries on Gulf Wars , where British Challenger Tank took out T-72s from 5 km and still has that record and came out with Zero Casualties , while American M1 Abrams which has a Smooth bore was effective , but took dozen casualties . but it was Challenger which won the Race in Gulf war and proved its high accuracy target hitting capability .

We all know the stories about Arjun outrunning and Out gunning T90.
But can you give sources(links) affirming your claims about Arjun taking hits from all kind of ammunation from a T90 and surviving combined with T90 not able to do the same.
I have watched all kind of war documantries about major tank battles, may have missed a few though. Last time I checked British is aiming to shift from rifled to smoothbore.
note: Iraqi T72s were not having any era, even their basic armour was inferior to the Russian ones. The fact is Even T90s are not designed to go head on with its western counterparts.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Not just mk2 but also in mk1. As Arjun had prove it gun accuracy in trials against Bhisma. But ATM can change gamebut are too costly. But in real warfare other things also impact on results. In Iraq, tanks as well as their tactics were too old which at last provide profit to allied force in locating their enemy.

Yes, my worlds were clear that Arjun has advantage on long range snipping especially in flat surfaces, it will be nightmare for enemy tanks.

But one more thing which I forget in my last post that rifled guns are too costly and also need more precision whole manufacturing. Cost is real issue as Arjun to much costly than Bhisma.

One more thing, in last one said that rounds tends to lose more,energy in rifled gun. But in actual it is opposite. Smoothbore leaches too much energy than rifled guns.

Seeing the future,I think rifled guns have bright future in tanks, especially when militaries will field tanks which really on active protection rather than conventional armour but ofcourse not in current form.

thank you for your valuable inputs.

 

[a.kumar]

We all know the stories about Arjun outrunning and Out gunning T90.
But can you give sources(links) affirming your claims about Arjun taking hits from all kind of ammunation from a T90 and surviving combined with T90 not able to do the same.
I have watched all kind of war documantries about major tank battles, may have missed a few though. Last time I checked British is aiming to shift from rifled to smoothbore.
note: Iraqi T72s were not having any era, even their basic armour was inferior to the Russian ones. The fact is Even T90s are not designed to go head on with its western counterparts.

No country puts such details on a website about ammunitions used for testing , If you want details of test reports then well sorry No country will give you about any programs , But i have followed Arjun tank developments for years but such information has been provided in various indian defence magazines by developers , may be you can search in google for such information , but i am putting all from my memory of following Arjun program .

I am putting some of the points which i remembered reading ,You can take it or leave it .


Arjun has been evaluated by Third party defence contractors like Israeli Merkava tank developers , and given its protection level Big thumbs up Specially Kanchan Armour of Arjun

Arjun on one to one with T-90 has emerged superior .

Any Tank developer does test live arounds on Tanks they build to check protection level its a common facts .

Chinese tank ammunition can be procured easily from friendly countries, It was mentioned in one of the reports about Indian spy agencies role in procurement .


British are moving to smoothbore gun on challenger 2 to use NATO standard ammunition developed in Germany and the US. 120 mm Rheinmetall L55 smoothbore gun to be used in challenger 2 is the same used in German Leopard 2 tank . Challengers 2 production is low in numbers so change of gun is due to maintain commonality of ammunition among allies .

 

[Echo_419]

Smoothbore guns are superior to Rifled guns...

Superior tanks like Merkava, Al Khalid-I, Leopards etc used smoothbore guns.

Inferior tanks like Arjun uses rifled.

Putting Al Khalid in the same category as Merkavav & Leopards

Why People forget that Arjun has been tested rigorously against T-90 Tanks , and has proved its mettle , it has taken direct Hit from T-90 tank and has survived , same cannot be said of T-90.. Other craps and their copies like T-96A and MBT-2000 or T-85 will be buried because T-90 has fired almost every round of ammunition used by Chinese and pakistani on their tanks together on Arjun and it has survived .

People comparing Rifle Gun vs Smooth bore please study some documentaries on Gulf Wars , where British Challenger Tank took out T-72s from 5 km and still has that record and came out with Zero Casualties , while American M1 Abrams which has a Smooth bore was effective , but took dozen casualties . but it was Challenger which won the Race in Gulf war and proved its high accuracy target hitting capability .

Agreed,Arjun Suits our Requirements & is Tested by both the IA & third parties

 

[The_Sidewinder]

No country puts such details on a website about ammunitions used for testing , If you want details of test reports then well sorry No country will give you about any programs , But i have followed Arjun tank developments for years but such information has been provided in various indian defence magazines by developers , may be you can search in google for such information , but i am putting all from my memory of following Arjun program .

I am putting some of the points which i remembered reading ,You can take it or leave it .


Arjun has been evaluated by Third party defence contractors like Israeli Merkava tank developers , and given its protection level Big thumbs up Specially Kanchan Armour of Arjun

Arjun on one to one with T-90 has emerged superior .

Any Tank developer does test live arounds on Tanks they build to check protection level its a common facts .

Chinese tank ammunition can be procured easily from friendly countries, It was mentioned in one of the reports about Indian spy agencies role in procurement .


British are moving to smoothbore gun on challenger 2 to use NATO standard ammunition developed in Germany and the US. 120 mm Rheinmetall L55 smoothbore gun to be used in challenger 2 is the same used in German Leopard 2 tank . Challengers 2 production is low in numbers so change of gun is due to maintain commonality of ammunition among allies .

I never questioned Arjun's armour protection credintials. I consider it to be very best.
I am more concerned about its main gun which uses smaller AFSPD rounds than its western counterpart.