Scramble Scramble Scramble

[Patriot]

I dont think the Predator operators have got your message.

They are enjoying the thrills almost every week.

I've heard some thugs also had thrill in Mumbai.Someone threatened surgical strikes by super duper Su30's and ended up sending dossiers

 

[lkozhi]

With almost 90% of their airdefence infrastructure being obsolete (as per their own army chief). First thing you should ask whether they would be able to detect the invading drone or not.....Interception is second step. Few days ago I was reading an interview of a ukrainaian radar and airdefence manufacturer, the words were ," we offered them the modernization at very competitive cost, but we can not make endless trips to dehi to make repeated presentations forever. Its no worth spending the money on setting up a stall at Indian Def Expo if you know that the proceedures wont make be able to make a sale." Just a quick fact, it took IAF Two Decades to induct HAWK trainers.

still no drones... at 10% air defence

 

[a. hussain]

Interesting to note your response. Brother still it does not justify as to why this idiot was appointed as an Air Chief? Besides it what about some examples quoted in my comments?. I know you may say that you have info from the guys on the ground but simply can't accept pathetic clarifications from the Airforce personnel where PAF & its so acclaimed personnel's 'role/ conduct/ abilities' itself are under question.

Thanks

STILL AWAITS ANSWER FOR MY ABOVE QUESTIONS?

 

[SamantK]

Let me remind you that SAMs are not positioned at every corner, during hostilities (2002) when you detect an enemy threat/intusion in the middle of the night, you don't wait around hoping for it to fly in the vicinity of a defence site so you could open fire on it.
PAF was scrambled to determine the nature of the intrusion, identify it and then deal with it.

Imagine if it was say, a small civil aircraft, which lost it's way or something, you don't just fire a missile just because it's entered your airspace.

Are you saying a drone is bigger than a civil aircraft, also im sure that Pakistan keeps its borders well fortified, especially indo-pak border so I highly doubt your corner story..

 

[Rank]

Exactly Sir, on the one hand, we vouch for democracy and elect the likes of Zardari and Co. and when the need arises, we expect the armed forces to take unilateral decisions and go gung ho. It's now well known that the PAF had those Choppers in sight but the order from the top was to pull back.
If any thing, the Civilian set up needs a kick on the back side to understand the public out cry. Lest they call it a great victory.

No one ELECT ZARDARI... its simply that begerat General MUSHARAF save his *** and AS USUAL like other generals runoff from this nation and put Zardari on our head simple!

Don't blame any civilian govt they are just Shatarang kay khelari jinko Army aur Agencyaan apni marzi say udar udar karti hain .... no one have capability to do anything WITHOUT MILITARY APPROVAL!

Civilian Govt blaa nblaa what civlian govt you are talking about!!!

 

[Windjammer]

Are you saying a drone is bigger than a civil aircraft, also im sure that Pakistan keeps its borders well fortified, especially indo-pak border so I highly doubt your corner story..

Do you even know your Carrots from your Peas,??? albeit India and Pakistan were in a stand off, they weren't exactly at war.
The civil aircraft example doesn't always apply for an air liner, it could be a Chopper and your former Gujarat energy minister would bare testimony to that. Imagine if when an Indian Cheetah Helo that ended on Pakistani side a few months back....what instead of being forced down, a Mani-pad had been sent it's way. !!!

 

[SamantK]

Do you even know your Carrots from your Peas,??? albeit India and Pakistan were in a stand off, they weren't exactly at war.
The civil aircraft example doesn't always apply for an air liner, it could be a Chopper and your former Gujarat energy minister would bare testimony to that. Imagine if when an Indian Cheetah Helo that ended on Pakistani side a few months back....what instead of being forced down, a Mani-pad had been sent it's way. !!!

froma Mani pad you can see what your target is, you do not fire it just looking at the radar.. no? In a stand-off it makes more sense to shoot something by sending a SAM its way rather wait for making it clear wether a target was civilian no country will risk a civilian aircraft in a stand-off. During Kargil conflict did you wait to bring down a chopper then? Also, a searcher II has a smaller signature than a chopper, go kid yourself saying it could have been a chopper!! Lol and you say that during a stand-off Pakistan was not prepared for a full war to place weapon systems around?

If you would have shot the helo you would have known what it meant, in peace time you declare war by shooting before establishing contant, a stand-off is not called peace time

 

[Windjammer]

froma Mani pad you can see what your target is, you do not fire it just looking at the radar.. no? In a stand-off it makes more sense to shoot something by sending a SAM its way rather wait for making it clear wether a target was civilian no country will risk a civilian aircraft in a stand-off. During Kargil conflict did you wait to bring down a chopper then? Also, a searcher II has a smaller signature than a chopper, go kid yourself saying it could have been a chopper!! Lol and you say that during a stand-off Pakistan was not prepared for a full war to place weapon systems around?

If you would have shot the helo you would have known what it meant, in peace time you declare war by shooting before establishing contant, a stand-off is not called peace time

You really need a lesson in aerial warfare ..... Kargil, albeit limited to an area was a shooting war, 2002 was a stand -off for a whole year. In Kargil, your aircraft and helicopters were attacking the ground forces and were facing retaliation. In 2002, no side was attacking the other, instead they were sending spy drones to monitor and check the defences. I wonder why the Russians, instead of firing a SAM at the Korean Jumbo Jet, decided to send up their Jets, who then shot it down.
Instead of going on a tangent, have the ability to comprehend the scenario at first hand.

 

[SamantK]

You really need a lesson in aerial warfare ..... Kargil, albeit limited to an area was a shooting war, 2002 was a stand -off for a whole year. In Kargil, your aircraft and helicopters were attacking the ground forces and were facing retaliation. In 2002, no side was attacking the other, instead they were sending spy drones to monitor and check the defences. I wonder why the Russians, instead of firing a SAM at the Korean Jumbo Jet, decided to send up their Jets, who then shot it down.
Instead of going on a tangent, have the ability to comprehend the scenario at first hand.

Apples and Oranges, please stop comparing Russian and Pakistan. I am not aware of the incident but was that a stand-off between Russian and Korea?

In a stand-off no side is as stupid as to send a Civilan Aircraft is my point, also in a stand-off there is no doubt that you put everything you had pointing towards India, dint you?.. You brought out the concept of civilian aircraft first, then Helo and when argued with the signature with a searcher II you go on a tangent to Russia and Korea.. I dont blame you for not having a correct reason, cause you dont have any. I have been asking you all the reasonable question. It doesnt matter if it is the air-force or Army, if they feel that it is an intruder with such a small signature, esp during a stand-off they shoot it down.. with whatever they got and the soonest cause the armies world over can tell between a signature of a drone small size and cheeta esp Pakistan.. you had other aircrafts also, dint you?

I was asking you for the reason which you have failed to give and started beating around the bush... If you have a reason please respond, if you don't there is no point..

 

[Windjammer]

Apples and Oranges, please stop comparing Russian and Pakistan. I am not aware of the incident but was that a stand-off between Russian and Korea?

In a stand-off no side is as stupid as to send a Civilan Aircraft is my point, also in a stand-off there is no doubt that you put everything you had pointing towards India, dint you?.. You brought out the concept of civilian aircraft first, then Helo and when argued with the signature with a searcher II you go on a tangent to Russia and Korea.. I dont blame you for not having a correct reason, cause you dont have any. I have been asking you all the reasonable question. It doesnt matter if it is the air-force or Army, if they feel that it is an intruder with such a small signature, esp during a stand-off they shoot it down.. with whatever they got and the soonest cause the armies world over can tell between a signature of a drone small size and cheeta esp Pakistan.. you had other aircrafts also, dint you?

I was asking you for the reason which you have failed to give and started beating around the bush... If you have a reason please respond, if you don't there is no point..

It was during the cold war.!!
Is it too difficult for you to comprehend the term rules of engagement. Do you blast away at anything that moves across the sky. You think you have more ingenuity than a professional organisation. May be you can enlighten us, during full scale war, the order is shoot first ask questions later....wonder why the airforces have to maintain CAPS over VPs....going by your logic, they should remain on the ground with SAMs pointing in every direction. LOL.
Now coming back to the scenario, a slow moving target enters your airspace over a residential area (Lahore) at around mid-night, The GCI, which made the detection, what was it suppose to do, scramble fighter jets or ask some missile battery to conduct a search and track and hope for the best. The bottom line is an intruder was detected, successfully intercepted and shot down.Mission accomplished .!!!

 

[LeGenD]

Traditionally, the PAF has been geared to meet the challenge from East

Indeed

even the American are well aware that if there is a confrontation, it's not going to be exactly a walk in the park.

If you are considering only air power, then PAF is no match for USAF. This WILL be a walk in the park for USAF.

Remember Pakistan built nukes when there were brown and pressler sanctions imposed on pakistan..

Let us be realistic; aid was minimized under the sanctions but millions of dollars were still coming in.

Also, economic situation was different back in those days. And Pakistan became very vulnerable during just 5 years of sanctions. This became evident in 2001.

 

[Storm Force]

Windjammer

In Kargil, your aircraft and helicopters were attacking the ground forces and were facing retaliation.

IAF flew hundreds of sorties in Kargil

PAF was no where to be seen.

Only a few hand held SAMs from the NLI.

" THOSE GUYS HAD TO FACE THE MUSIC " alone i,m afraid

Thats not retaliation in my book.

 

[LeGenD]

Windjammer



IAF flew hundreds of sorties in Kargil

PAF was no where to be seen.

Only a few hand held SAMs from the NLI.

" THOSE GUYS HAD TO FACE THE MUSIC " alone i,m afraid

Thats not retaliation in my book.

PAF was very weak back then. And Kargil incident was a sign of clash between institutions in Pakistan.

PAF has decent fighting capability now. And all defence related institutions will cooperate with each other this time.