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Russia offers Strike Optimised Sukhoi’s, OEM status for HAL

It's Litening II or III? Anyway, if Rafale doesn't come which GOD Willing will happen soon; India needs another pod immediately comparable or better than the Sniper which can be used for A-A targets and can generate GPS co-ordinates of targets for satellite guided munitions. India should buy more LGBs+plus other western munitions and integrate them with Sushkas
Litening III that will be upgraded to IV along with a large order for new Litening IVs for the LCA and other a/c.

@Topic, the Russians are pushing HARD for this deal now- look at the amount of misinformation their state sponsored media has been putting out there with respect to the MMRCA deal lately. I'm frankly disillusioned with these folk, the MKI has had lacklustre after sales support (endemic of the Russian), the MTA project is NOWHERE, the FGFA deal is still yet to be finalised, the MiG-29K's engines are serving for a fraction of their service lives before burning out and this is added on top of all the cost escalations and delays they have inflicted on India over the years from the Viky to Talwars to T-90s etc etc

India needs to diversify away from the Russians where possible, they are too unreliable and unproductive.
 
So Rafale is the most pathetic dogfighter since it has 9.5 tons payload with only 150 Kn full thrust?
If they do come to a merge and if they aren't carrying critical payloads, they can always jettison it, plus you don't need to carry the full 12 tons all the time.
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150kN for 9.5ton payload for bombing run and not for interception. When intercepting or escorting a bomber, the pay load is not 9.5 ton. That reduced agility and acc.
 
What does it mean by offering OEM status to HAL ?
OEM of what ? Su MKI ?

Does this mean we can keep the MKI plant running in Pune/Koraput and export the Su-MKIs to friendly countries like Vietnam,Indonesia et al after India's order of 272 is complete
 
Su 35 / Mirage 2000 C - both single seaters with aim on A2A capabilities
Su 34 / Mirage 2000 D - both twin seaters with the aim on A2G capabilities, due to WSO, specilized radar modes and avionics

The Mirage 2000 as such was never designed to be a strike fighter and not even IAF had that intention to use it as such. That's only a misconception based on it's success in Kargil, but it's main aim was always to be an interceptor with multi role capabilities.

But I believe Mirage's A2A(aerodynamic) capabilities are secondary due to lower wing loading than F-14, f, 16 and Su30 , which makes it more of a bomber. But because Mirage 2000 is a delta wing aircraft the rest of the fuselage configuration also compensates the lesser wing loading. And hence it is a Multi Role aircraft under this parameter.
 
  • Su-34 is not an air-superiority fighter. It is a fighter-bomber.
  • It has a side-by-side seating cockpit with a toilet and bed for pilots to relax on long range bomb runs.
  • IAF yet does not have a doctrine of using bombers as of now and is using Mig27/Mirage/Jags for Deep Penetration strike
  • The biggest advantage Su34 has over MKI is its terrain hugging ability which MKI lacks and was one of the critical factors used for evaluation in MMRCA also for a proper omnirole choice
  • India's Choice for Su34 may be difficult as talks of PAK DA (bomber version) development is heard but induction in 2030+ timeframe. So even if Su34 first tested in 1991 and finally introduced in 2007, the aircraft is a 4th gen aircraft and will need a very "Strong" MLU to upgrade to 4.5++ Gen equivalent of say Rafale/Eurofighter equivalents. Need of a much stronger radar (MMR presently). Thus in a time frame of retiring jags uptill 2030 types, then whether to wait for PAK Da or induct 2-3 sqds of Su 34 is a question
  • RAF has ordered around 140 Su34 Birds
  • A question to think is Su34 is a very long endurance mission aircraft with range of 4000 kms it does provide us with a strategic depth for Swing combat in case of two front hostilities. Especially bcz the eastern border requirements needs a capable bird which can cross into deep territory in case of engagements. As of now that planners perceive Jags and perhaps Rafales (A2G mode) to fulfill.
  • No external tank configs with weapon loads and ranges
    • 13500 kg on 500km Hi-Hi-Hi, 350km Hi-Low-Hi
    • 10950 kg on 1000km Hi-Hi-Hi, 550km Hi-Low-Hi, 350km Low-Low-Low
    • 8000 kg on 1450km Hi-Hi-Hi, 750km Hi-Low-Hi, 500km Low-Low-Low
    • 5000 kg on 2050km Hi-Hi-Hi, 1650 Hi-Low-Hi, 1000 Low-Low-Low
  • Su-34 is designed to destroy high priority targets on operative and tactic ranges
  • It is aerodynamically adjusted for long-range high-speed (sub and supersonic) low-altitude operations.
  • it has very powerful electronic surveillance and suppression suite making it compatible to EA-18G Growler in SEAD/DEAD roles.
  • And SEAD/DEAD is the second Su-34 primary role in Russian AF.
  • The third main role is euro-strategic convention and nuclear strike and naval anti-carrier and anti-shipping operations which are on Tu-22M3 now. But Backfires are aging and too large for the navy needs.
  • The main aim was to counter Nato Air Defence in europe so russians claim that Chines AD is inferior to NATO AD and thus Su34 fits into deep strike or SFC role perfectly
  • Upgrade Plan is
    • There are plans to introduce Su-34M to change existing Su-34 on production line on NAPO.
    • It willl incorporate Su-35 integrated avionics (AESA radar, UV MAWS ad the other integrated optics - OEIS, 2 large displays for each pilot instead of 4 smaller ones, a new HUD - ShKAI-35, powerfull mission computers, new special designed ECM suit Tarantul, new ground-looking optical suite ), also new engines (Al-31FM2/FM3 14,5 tons thrust each) and new weapons designed for PAK FA.
    • There are rumors about even 117S engines for Su-34 for unification.
    • Upgrade initiated from 2013 onwards



su34_large.jpg


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  • If bombers is what India looks into then India could or should look at Tu160
  • tu-160-cutaway.jpg

    159430930.jpg


  • But these are massive fuel guzzlers and are very cost intensive in operating.
  • UPFRONT Cost is HUGE
  • Russia may NEVER SELL it to india

Various sources from google.
Primary data from
Sukhoi Su-34 Fullback; Russia's New Heavy Strike Fighter

i will leave you folks with these pics


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Comprehensive post, dude ! :cheers:

On topic : Wait till tomorrow maybe one more week !

If dassault let's this go by, for whatever reason, it will truly not be a good experience !

This was a deal for 189 aircrafts for the love of god !

This isn't about 20 30 40 50 60 aircrafts, 189.

The deal was never gonna be the same right from the beginning.

Let them bankroll rich Arab states.

P.S. : aero India was well timed, no ? ;)
 
To much Russian dependence is not good thing.
Are u crazy ? We already are. And I really wonder why we esitate to buy Su 34 if it's fits our bill. IAF must stop being a costly girlfriend and start being a responsible house wife. SU 34 with new upgrades are much more dangerous and we can use its ability to strike eastern countries . incase of SCS Conflict . Western Borders are well with in our range we can manage with LCA Mirage Jags Sukois . Rafale is too costly for us . SU34 is like AC . In terms of its capacity for deep strike mission . 100 of them will do . Until AMCA and PakFa arrives
 
Litening III that will be upgraded to IV along with a large order for new Litening IVs for the LCA and other a/c.

@Topic, the Russians are pushing HARD for this deal now- look at the amount of misinformation their state sponsored media has been putting out there with respect to the MMRCA deal lately. I'm frankly disillusioned with these folk, the MKI has had lacklustre after sales support (endemic of the Russian), the MTA project is NOWHERE, the FGFA deal is still yet to be finalised, the MiG-29K's engines are serving for a fraction of their service lives before burning out and this is added on top of all the cost escalations and delays they have inflicted on India over the years from the Viky to Talwars to T-90s etc etc

India needs to diversify away from the Russians where possible, they are too unreliable and unproductive.
Don't go by the Hindu report. Mig 29K has a excellent record when it comes to maintenance even they are better than Su30MKI.
 
If there is a choice between Rafale, a totally new generation fighter, and Sukhois, evolved from cold war designs, I would say go for Rafale.

In terms of quality of performance and technology, Russians cant beat Rafale.

By the way, I have already bought one and its a beautiful jet :) :)

RV4610.JPG
 

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