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Raymond Davis Case: I too had Davis' job - Former CIA assassin

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Robert Anderson: Same Cover, Same Lies

I Had Ray Davis's Job, in Laos 30 Years Ago
Same Cover, Same Lies
By ROBERT ANDERSON

The story of Raymond Allen Davis is one familiar to me and I wish our government would quit doing these things - they cost us credibility.

Davis is the American being held as a spy working under diplomatic cover out of our embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan. You can understand why foreign countries no longer trust us and people are rising up across the Middle East against the Great Satan.

In the Vietnam War the country of Laos held a geo-strategic position, as does Pakistan does to Afghanistan today. As in Pakistan, in Laos our country conducted covert military operations against a sovereign people, using the CIA.

I was a demolitions technician with the Air Force who was reassigned to work with the CIA’s Air America operation in Laos. We turned in our military IDs cards and uniforms and were issued a State Department ID card and dressed in blue jeans. We were told if captured we were to ask for diplomatic immunity, if alive. We carried out military missions on a daily basis all across the countries of Laos, Cambodia, Thailand and Vietnam.

We also knew that if killed or captured that we would probably not be searched for and our families back home in the U.S. would be told we had been killed in an auto accident of some kind back in Thailand and our bodies not recovered.

Our team knew when the UN inspectors and international media were scheduled to arrive - we controlled the airfields. We would disappear to our safe houses so we could not be asked questions. It was all a very well planned operation, 60 years ago, involving the military and diplomats out of the US Embassy. It had been going on a long time when I was there during the 1968 Tet Offensive. This continued for a long time, until we were routed and had to abandon the whole war as a failure.

In Laos the program I was attached to carried out a systematic assassination of people who were identified as not loyal to U.S. goals. It was called the Phoenix program and eliminated an estimated 60,000 people across Indochina. We did an amazing amount of damage to the civilian infrastructure of the country, and still lost the war. I saw one team of mercenaries I was training show us a bag of ears of dead civilians they had killed. This was how they verified their kills for us. The Green Berets that day were telling them to just take photos of the dead, leave the ears.

Mel Gibson made a movie about all this, called Air America. It included in the background the illegal drug operation the CIA ran to pay for their operations. Congress had not authorized funds for what we were doing. I saw the drug operation first hand too. This was all detailed in The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia by Alfred McCoy. I did not connect all this until the Iran-Contra hearings when Oliver North was testifying about it. Oliver North was a leader of the Laos operation I was assigned to work with.

Our country has a long history of these type programs going back to World War Two. We copied this from of warfare from the Nazis in WWII it seems. We justified it as necessary for the Cold War. One of the first operations was T.P. Ajax run by Kermit Roosevelt to overthrow the democratically elected government of Iran in 1953to take over their oil fields.

In that coup the CIA and the State Department under the Dulles Brothers first perfected these covert, illegal and immoral actions. Historians have suggested that Operation T.P. Ajax was the single event that set in motion the political force of Islamic fundamentalism we are still dealing with today.

Chalmers Johnson also a former CIA employee wrote a series of books too on these blowbacks that happen when the truth is held from the American public.

If we had taken a different approach to our problems in those days an approach that did not rely on lying to our own and the people of other countries and killing them indiscriminately our country would not be in the disaster it is abroad today.. I was young and foolish in those days of the Vietnam War, coveting my Top Secret security clearance, a big thing for an uneducated hillbilly from Appalachia. We saw ourselves much like James Bond characters, but now I am much wiser. These kinds of actions have immense and long reaching consequences and should be shut down.

But I see from the Ray Davis fiasco in Pakistan that our government is still up to its old way of denying to the people of the world what everyone knows is true.

When will this official hypocrisy end, when will our political
class speak out about this and quit going along with the lies and tricks? How many more of our people and others will die in these foolish programs?

Davis is in a bad situation now because most of the people of the world, as we see across the Middle East, are now aware of the lies and not going to turn their head anymore.

I say “most” everyone knows, because our own public, the ones suppose to be in control of the military and CIA, is constantly lied to. It is so sad to see President Obama repeating the big lie.

Robert Anderson lives in Albuquerque, N.M. He can be reached at citizen@comcast.net

I'm glad to see, honest Americans are stepping up. Resigning to the USG's lies also signs in the fact that Americans are relinquishing a key part of the control they are supposed to exhert on their own Government. Blind patriotism should not end up dismantling the US political system.

Be brave and call a spade, a spade. It will only improve America's position in the world, the embarassment would be for the crooks and that are sitting in Langley and the White House not for America.
 
Raymond Davis, American CIA Contractor, Goes On Trial For Murder In Pakistan

(Reuters) - A Pakistani court adjourned on Friday the trial of a CIA contractor charged with killing two Pakistanis until March 3, dismissing U.S. demands for his release.

The contractor, Raymond Davis, shot dead two men in the eastern city of Lahore last month. He said he acted in self-defense and the United States says he has diplomatic immunity and should be repatriated.

The case has inflamed anti-American sentiment in Pakistan and is straining relations between the allies. Pakistani efforts against Islamist militants on its border with Afghanistan are seen as crucial to ending the war in neighboring Afghanistan.

"He (Davis) said that he should be given immunity ... a discussion will be held on this at the next hearing," said Asad Manzoor Butt, a lawyer for the families of the two men Davis killed.

Davis, a former U.S. special forces officer, has been charged with double-murder and faces possible execution.

There have been conflicting accounts about the identity of the two victims with Davis and a police report indicating they were armed robbers while Pakistani media and some officials have portrayed them as innocent victims.

With public anger and anti-American feeling running high, President Ali Asif Zardari's unpopular government had little choice but to let the case go through the courts.

"He should be treated the same way he treated Pakistanis," said Muzammil Mukhtar, a laborer in a factory near Kot Lakhpat jail, where Davis has been detained since February 11 and where his trial began on Friday.

"We should not care about our relations with America. These have never been good."

Davis is being held under tight security.

Protesters have burned effigies of him and U.S. flags since details of the killings became public, sparking concern about his safety.

U.S. Consul General General Carmela A. Conroy attended the trial, but reporters and other members of the public were not allowed in.

"COMPLICATED" CASE

The murder trial is one of two legal cases involving Davis.

On March 14, a Lahore court will decide whether he enjoys diplomatic immunity, another contentious issue that the government has said must be decided legally, at the risk of angering the United States and jeopardizing up to $3 billion a year in U.S. military and civilian aid.

"Davis case is not so simple as it is sometimes portrayed by some. It is a complex case involving issues in national and international law as well as grave sensitivities that cannot be wished away," presidential spokesman Farhatullah Babar said.

"The court has not only taken cognizance of it but also declared that it will decide on the immunity issue. We respect the court and will wait for its verdict."

In addition to causing a diplomatic standoff, the case has strained, but not broken, relations between the CIA and Pakistan's main Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) spy agency, which did not know of the presence of Davis in the country.

CIA-ISI ties are essential to battling al Qaeda and Taliban militants in Pakistan and neighboring Afghanistan, where U.S. and other foreign forces are fighting an almost decade-old war that has become increasingly bloody.

Relations between the spy agencies took a blow in December, when the CIA station chief in Islamabad was forced to leave the country after his name was published in a court filing over attacks in Pakistan by pilotless U.S. aircraft.

The latest case has made things worse, as even the usually tight-lipped ISI noted.

"Post incident conduct of CIA has virtually put the partnership into question ... it is hard to predict if the relationship will ever reach the level at which it was prior to the Davis episode," the ISI said in a letter to the Wall Street Journal last week.

The United States says it holds Pakistan responsible for the safety of Davis, and prison sources say his cell is in an area isolated from other prisoners and under constant surveillance and heavy guard.

There is reason for worry in Pakistan, where rogue security forces have at times turned on government officials.

Last month, Punjab province Governor Salman Taseer was shot dead by one of his own guards. His killer became a hero for Islamist groups that opposed the governor's moderate political views.

(Additional reporting by Mian Khursheed, Arshad Mohammad and Sheree Sardar; Writing by Rebecca Conway and Chris Allbritton; Editing by Robert Birsel)
 
Robert Anderson: Same Cover, Same Lies



I'm glad to see, honest Americans are stepping up. Resigning to the USG's lies also signs in the fact that Americans are relinquishing a key part of the control they are supposed to exhert on their own Government. Blind patriotism should not end up dismantling the US political system.

Be brave and call a spade, a spade. It will only improve America's position in the world, the embarassment would be for the crooks and that are sitting in Langley and the White House not for America.

I wonder what the american government is going to say now? Perhaps they will try to have the diplomatic rules changed so that CIA assassins can enjoy diplomatic immunity.
 
Be brave and call a spade, a spade. It will only improve America's position in the world, the embarassment would be for the crooks and that are sitting in Langley and the White House not for America.
Quoted for Truth. If only our government show some guts and do what is required and what we all want. kicked out all CIA and other american agents, that's the first step to save Pakistan.
 
Hi,

In an old book that I read awhile ago about vietnam----I quote----there was information that a vietnam general will be sdressed in peasant clothes and walking through a certain spot with villagers----the route was a narrow walkway---a killer / assasin / sniper team ( shooter and spotter )was ordered to take him out---when the spotter saw the villagers approaching in a single file---he could not spot the general-----there were about 35 + people walking in the single file and no place to hide----the sniper shot each one of them----later they found out----all were villagers with women and children----.

The ruthlessnes and the brutality of the american soldier is on the same level as of their counterparts----keep them away from your borders----they are brutal in execution and ruthless in killing----.

There is a new word in the american vocabulary since 9/11----bad guys-----. The enemy is addressed as a bad guy----and as children and people we grow up hating the bad guys in the back of our minds----this label helped america justify the killings of a million and a half iraqis and a million afghans----this word 'bad guy' takes the humanity away from the opponent.

As I have been saying Davis is an illegal and as American Eagle stated---he was recruited through this holding company which had an address in an empty space in a strip mall---.
 
Hi,

In an old book that I read awhile ago about vietnam----I quote----there was information that a vietnam general will be sdressed in peasant clothes and walking through a certain spot with villagers----the route was a narrow walkway---a killer / assasin / sniper team ( shooter and spotter )was ordered to take him out---when the spotter saw the villagers approaching in a single file---he could not spot the general-----there were about 35 + people walking in the single file and no place to hide----the sniper shot each one of them----later they found out----all were villagers with women and children----.

The ruthlessnes and the brutality of the american soldier is on the same level as of their counterparts----keep them away from your borders----they are brutal in execution and ruthless in killing----.

There is a new word in the american vocabulary since 9/11----bad guys-----. The enemy is addressed as a bad guy----and as children and people we grow up hating the bad guys in the back of our minds----this label helped america justify the killings of a million and a half iraqis and a million afghans----this word 'bad guy' takes the humanity away from the opponent.

As I have been saying Davis is an illegal and as American Eagle stated---he was recruited through this holding company which had an address in an empty space in a strip mall---.

Thats why it is so important to reclaim the American people on our side. If there is anti-Americanism in Pakistan there is an equal and opposite force in anti-Pakistanism in America. Logic dictates it can not be a one way street. At most most Americans would be unaware about Pakistan, but out of the people who are, I'm willing to bet the percentage that is anti-American would match the percentage that is anti-Pakistan in respective countries.

We have our own various versions of this "bad guy" labels slapped across Americans. Having to meet Americans on a daily basis, any fair minded Pakistani can assess that the people are not the blood thirsty killers that is often portrayed by vested elements in the Pakistani society. So I find it hard that honest Americans would find it in themselves to allow "killing 60,000" people... Back in the day, I wasn't born yet, but we've all read about the Vietnam protests, so ultimately Americans did speak up against their own governments actions. So if they did something when 60,000 were killed, why not when 600,000 have been killed?

Stephen Cohen, pointed out that these agents of the CIA won't be needed if Pakistan did its job at reigning in on the terrorists. This is a convenient fashionable statement that sells like hot cakes. It discounts the fact that these agents cannot be trusted by another country to keep their national interests supreme. For example, what's to say CIA pays TTP operatives to get information on the AT leaders. They get that information, but they are now several bucks richer to carry out their operations against Pakistan. CIA wins, TTP wins, Pakistan loses. This was just an example of a likely scenario upon which we'd have no control over with CIA agents running amok it also points out that since we'd be so focused upon these agents, we can't do our job of reigning in on terrorists that Cohen accused us of.

The American people need to think about Pakistan and the world with as much detailed thought as much as we think about America. Like America is not just Pentagon, White House, Langley, Nevada, Pakistan too cannot be just boxed in with Taliban, LeT, FATA.

Why do you think this Raymond Davis issue has exploded so big? It shouts out "America does not even respect you enough to be held accountable for killing your people".

Essentially we're shouting "Respect us!"
And they are shouting "Respect U.S.!"

Our relationship has screwed up, we need to now go back to the fundamentals. What does American want from the relationship? What does Pakistan want from this relationship? What do Americans want in general from the world? What does Pakistan want in general from the world? If we all can agree to a justifiable and fair definition of who we both are as a people then we won't need assassins.
 
Our relationship has screwed up, we need to now go back to the fundamentals. What does American want from the relationship? What does Pakistan want from this relationship? What do Americans want in general from the world? What does Pakistan want in general from the world? If we all can agree to a justifiable and fair definition of who we both are as a people then we won't need assassins.

Believe me, this is not going to be solve. first pakistani leaders don't have courage to ask something like this when they go there every second month to beg for more money.

second, after afghan war, what started in pakistan is still continuing, terrorists attacks after every second day and everyone know who is supporting these talibans. no matter how much america say, we're great allies and america is helping pakistan. that's just a bluff to get what they want. pakistani nukes are the main target since 1999. this problem is not going to be solve with one or two table talks.

I think the very first thing we need is to make them sure, we are not under them, pakistan is a free country. we have our defense system, pakistani forces are not sleeping and we can control our country and borders. We have to stop these drone attacks and every other country involvement in our internal affairs. once we truly become free. i think anti-american problem will solve automatically.
 
Great posts, but I am still trying to follow the rapid changing of threads. I don't mean this as a criticism, please note that, but it does create disruptions in discussing important posts because they are now split over many threads by now.

"Our relationship has screwed up, we need to now go back to the fundamentals. What does American want from the relationship? What does Pakistan want from this relationship? What do Americans want in general from the world? What does Pakistan want in general from the world? If we all can agree to a justifiable and fair definition of who we both are as a people then we won't need assassins.

Are we sure we have the patience to discuss these important questions here? :D
 
Hi, MK... 'badguys' sounds a programmed command.
It is known since long ago that US have treatments which can make a human act irrational... loose control over his sensibility.
I have once seen perhaps 'national geographic' in this regard.
 
Hi,

The difference between killing 600000 others and a million afg's is different----killing those 600000 does bring some remorse to the american christians----for they can convert most of them to christianity-----but 1 million afg----it doesnot bother them much----first of all they are muslims----so hardly a chance of conversion----secondly---as a muslims life is of least value to anyone----there would be no repurcussions and feel of guilt in their conscience.

Invasion and killing of muslims in afg and iraq is referred to 'as a job that we are doing'---that is where the justification comes from---.
 
I'm glad to see, honest Americans are stepping up.
Don't be so sure that counterpunch and "honest Americans" go together. Bob Anderson is one of those Americans who are convinced the U.S. is the cause of every problem and that the Arabs, in attempting to throw out their dictators, are "rising up against the global inequalities created and sustained by the U.S. war machine." link So at the very least he is perceptually challenged. I'm not sure how much stock I should put in what he claims are his personal experiences, though he does admit to lying to inspectors. Note that he offers no proof of Davis' alleged job function.
 
Robert Anderson: Same Cover, Same Lies



I'm glad to see, honest Americans are stepping up. Resigning to the USG's lies also signs in the fact that Americans are relinquishing a key part of the control they are supposed to exhert on their own Government. .... Be brave and call a spade, a spade. ....
I can try to be brave & call this spade (Robert Anderson) a spade... who admitted he with comrades killed some 60,000 , i would say "innocents"... & caused a hell of infrastructure damage... etc

سو چوهے كها كے بلى حج كو چلى

But good post anyways...
-
 
Great posts, but I am still trying to follow the rapid changing of threads. I don't mean this as a criticism, please note that, but it does create disruptions in discussing important posts because they are now split over many threads by now.
Haha, its keeping things focussed upon Raymond Davis primarily. We do tend to run off on tangents in threads. Here more than anything else, that would be very unwise to do so. Hence I'm picking up 3-4 main topics weekly and keeping them into stickies.

To deter disruption of important discussion points, I'm added the linking chain

Are we sure we have the patience to discuss these important questions here? :D
probably not in the Raymond Davis threads but somewhere else it would be perfectly fine. Although there should be some degree of expectation management here as things will most definitely take off with a bumpy start.
 
Don't be so sure that counterpunch and "honest Americans" go together. Bob Anderson is one of those Americans who are convinced the U.S. is the cause of every problem and that the Arabs, in attempting to throw out their dictators, are "rising up against the global inequalities created and sustained by the U.S. war machine." link So at the very least he is perceptually challenged. I'm not sure how much stock I should put in what he claims are his personal experiences, though he does admit to lying to inspectors. Note that he offers no proof of Davis' alleged job function.

Being convinced is a lot easier when you, yourself have carried out orders to kill 60,000 people on your government's command. I agree he does not hand over a written document with Davis' JD, but he does confirm that the SOPs followed by the USG in Pakistan match those that he followed under directives from the USG. Now its possible that you may want to argue that Davis was a bell boy and Anderson was a terrorist, who just happened to follow the same procedures. You may do that.

Raymond’s spies shifted to Islamabad


Maybe one of these accomplices will provide a clearer picture to his job function.
 
I wonder what the american government is going to say now? Perhaps they will try to have the diplomatic rules changed so that CIA assassins can enjoy diplomatic immunity.


Take this as definitive from a former Ambassador Craig Murray.

"There are five circumstances in which Raymond Davis, the American killer caught in Pakistan, might have diplomatic immunity. They are these:

1) He was notified in writing to the government of Pakistan as a member of diplomatic staff of a US diplomatic mission in Pakistan, and the government of Pakistan had accepted him as such in writing.

2) He was part of an official delegation engaged in diplomatic negotiations notified to the government of Pakistan and accepted by them.

3) He was a member of staff of an international organisation recognised by Pakistan and was resident in Pakistan as a member of diplomatic staff working for that organisation, or was in Pakistan undertaking work for that organisation with the knowledge and approval of the Pakistani authorities.

4) He was an accredited diplomat elsewhere and was in direct tranist through Pakistan to his diplomatic posting.

5) He was an accredited courier carrying US diplomatic dispatches in transit through Pakistan.

2) to 5) plainly do not apply. The Obama administration is going for 1). My information, from senior Pakistani ex-military sources that I trust, is firmly that the necessary diplomatic exchange of notes does not exist that would make Davis an accredited US diplomat in Pakistan, but that the State Department is putting huge pressure on the government of Pakistan to overlook that fact.

This passes a commonsense test – if the documents did exist, Lady Clinton would have waved them at us by now.

Craig Murray » Blog Archive » Raymond Davis Does Not Have Diplomatic Immunity
 
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