Rajputs, Jats and Gujjars

[AfrazulMandal]

No need to break links.
Call yourself ex Rajputs for instance.
Rajput then. Muslim now. Alhamdulillah.

 

[Tea addict]

We do same,lineage over 800 years is preserved and updated.

From what background? Will be interesting to know ...in our case we update it after marriage : like from which village the bride is from,her clan,her parents etc..after birth - like what is the name of new member, birthplace etc..after death : that this member has died and died at this place..other than that we also update where we are currently living as I updated my residence as a urban city while my father and last 3 generation residence is in my village and before that another big village which is a tehsil now..I have records of last 11 generation with all their names,whom they married or married off to..where they migrated and that..and before that the subdivision in clan decided our history as a division in clan is named after one person whom we all are decended from.

 

[cringe master]

but if Pakistanis want to distance ourselves from Indians, wouldn't it better to just drop such names? You get plenty of Indian Jats, Rajputs and Gujjars, but you really won't find many Indians belonging to same clans of these groups as most Pakistanis. Not only that, but Hinduism is often strongly connotated with these groups.

I've been thinking recently, what do you guys think about these titles?

Gujjars, Jats and Rajputs are each pretty big groups with plenty of sub-groups among them. Many of them (e.g Chauhans) are in fact shared among all three. Not only that, but unlike other tribes in Pakistan, these ones don't denote people of a common origin. Each clan claims a different origin, all that unites them is the fact that they intermarry with each other. You even have some clans that are also sometimes considered tribes in their own right. Even in terms of occupation, Jats and Gujjars have been pretty diverse. So I really don't see a point to us using such titles.

Not only that, but if Pakistanis want to distance ourselves from Indians, wouldn't it better to just drop such names? You get plenty of Indian Jats, Rajputs and Gujjars, but you really won't find many Indians belonging to same clans of these groups as most Pakistanis. Not only that, but Hinduism is often strongly connotated with these groups.

Your thoughts?

@Muslimrenaissance @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Indus Pakistan @Samlee @AfrazulMandal @iqbal Ali @Talwar e Pakistan @Areesh @Zibago @TMA @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @waz

in pakistan army i hear they discourage to use surnames based on caste.
if we are Pakistani and muslim then these surname shouldn't matter but thing is we also can't say we should drop it because these are identities and most people are too proud to let go of these identities
but if you use these to discriminate other then it's huge problem

 

[Tea addict]

In Central Punjab (Lahore,etc.,) we are half the population. We are thoroughly linked and embedded in the structure and way of life of Punjab.

Rajputs and related groups like Jats, Gujjars, Bajwas, Bhattis have been part of this region since time immemorial.

A Muslim Rajput would rather commit sepukku than claim anything in common with India or Hinduism.

This is why we don’t consider you Rajputs, you talk big but you are mostly full of hot air.

Half of you stole our surnames and many of you use them as first names like Raj, Rani, etc.

Real Rajput blood makes us tall, muscular, fair-skinned with light hair.

This because of our nomadic Central Asian Irani origin.



Muslim and Pakistani first. I consider the two almost synonymous in importance of our identity.

Ethnicity, language, province second.

Matter resolved.

By the way, like the rest of us, Pakistani Rajputs have also begun marrying outside tribe.

Find me reference where Rajputs were referred to as fair in poems,in folklores etc. Being fair is never considered one of the trait of Rajputs and other are usually same for all warrior community like tall and that stuff. And yah it's funny seeing you say we stole any of your history as we try to distance ourselves from you and don't even consider you Rajputs. The only place you can say this stuff is Pakistan and will not be laughed at.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

This thread is dumb as ****.

 

[Hamza913]

@Taimur Khurram these are clans not titles.

Rajput, Jat and Gujjar are not clans, they're communities who intermarry with each other. Hence why I'm rather mixed about Pakistanis identifying with them.

Jat population:
Pakistan: 16%
India: 2-3%

Gujjar population:
Pakistan: 10-15% (varies on sources)
India: 1-2% (varies on sources)

Rajput population:
Pakistan: 8-10%
India: 3.43%

Could I please see some sources?

Not at all, we should never break our links with our ancestors

I never said we should, but the fact is that when it comes to ancestry, it's your paternal clan that matters. Gujjar, Jat and Rajput clans don't all come from the same origin. Different clans among them have different origins.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

I've been thinking recently, what do you guys think about these titles?

Gujjars, Jats and Rajputs are each pretty big groups with plenty of sub-groups among them. Many of them (e.g Chauhans) are in fact shared among all three. Not only that, but unlike other tribes in Pakistan, these ones don't denote people of a common origin. Each clan claims a different origin, all that unites them is the fact that they intermarry with each other. You even have some clans that are also sometimes considered tribes in their own right. Even in terms of occupation, Jats and Gujjars have been pretty diverse. So I really don't see a point to us using such titles.

Not only that, but if Pakistanis want to distance ourselves from Indians, wouldn't it better to just drop such names? You get plenty of Indian Jats, Rajputs and Gujjars, but you really won't find many Indians belonging to same clans of these groups as most Pakistanis. Not only that, but Hinduism is often strongly connotated with these groups.

Your thoughts?

@Muslimrenaissance @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Indus Pakistan @Samlee @AfrazulMandal @iqbal Ali @Talwar e Pakistan @Areesh @Zibago @TMA @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @waz

Considering we live in the same nation, these titles seem so alien and strange to me, but our titles will look the same to you. This proves the fact the we need to further integrate and educate ourselves about each other.

 

[Hamza913]

Considering we live in the same nation, this titles seem so alien and strange to me, but our titles will look the same to you. This proves the fact the we need to further integrate and educate ourselves about each other.

I don't find Pashtun or Baloch titles/tribes alien at all. Many of them sound Islamic (e.g Yusefzai and Ahmedzai), and others aren't too different to ours (e.g Karlani doesn't sound too dissimilar to Karlal).

This thread is dumb as ****.

Then don't comment.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I've been thinking recently, what do you guys think about these titles?

Gujjars, Jats and Rajputs are each pretty big groups with plenty of sub-groups among them. Many of them (e.g Chauhans) are in fact shared among all three. Not only that, but unlike other tribes in Pakistan, these ones don't denote people of a common origin. Each clan claims a different origin, all that unites them is the fact that they intermarry with each other. You even have some clans that are also sometimes considered tribes in their own right. Even in terms of occupation, Jats and Gujjars have been pretty diverse. So I really don't see a point to us using such titles.

Not only that, but if Pakistanis want to distance ourselves from Indians, wouldn't it better to just drop such names? You get plenty of Indian Jats, Rajputs and Gujjars, but you really won't find many Indians belonging to same clans of these groups as most Pakistanis. Not only that, but Hinduism is often strongly connotated with these groups.

Your thoughts?

@Muslimrenaissance @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Indus Pakistan @Samlee @AfrazulMandal @iqbal Ali @Talwar e Pakistan @Areesh @Zibago @TMA @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @waz

Conservative/rural rajputs dont marry outside or into other communities.

If somebody does hes not considered a “rajput” by his extended family or kin.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

we try to distance ourselves from you and don't even consider you Rajputs.

I care not what you think. Rajputs are Rajputs and Pakistan is full of them.

From the military, parliament, to the judiciary, we have a strong presence at all levels of government.

Several of my relatives are famous and well-known personalities in Pakistan.

Pakistan is as much a Rajput nation as it is a Pukhtoon nation or Kashmiri nation.

Our Islamicization and alliance with the Mughals made us not only the rulers of Punjab, but the whole of the Indus and Hindustan.

We don’t share your contempt of Muslims, in fact we view ourselves as the great defenders and protectors of Islam.

 

[waz]

And yah it's funny seeing you say we stole any of your history as we try to distance ourselves from you and don't even consider you Rajputs. The only place you can say this stuff is Pakistan and will not be laughed at.

I've seen with my own two eyes Rajputs from Rajasthan embrace Pakistani ones as kin. Here in the UK we have many such events where Rajputs (Indian) gather and will invite along Pakistani Rajput friends.

Here;

Although I will agree there are some who don't see how you can be Rajput and not a follower of Sanatana Dharma, but I have found them in the minority. The other views are as follows;
-It's a bloodline and so therefore even non-Hindus ones are kin.
-They don't really care.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Considering we live in the same nation, these titles seem so alien and strange to me, but our titles will look the same to you. This proves the fact the we need to further integrate and educate ourselves about each other.

Come spend some time in Lahore, dine well and see the famous sites. Talk to the people in the street. You will learn so much about these clans, and this goes probably all over Pakistan.

I've seen with my own two eyes Rajputs from Rajasthan embrace Pakistani ones as kin. Here in the UK we have many such events where Rajputs (Indian) gather and will invite along Pakistani Rajput friends.

Here;

Although I will agree there are some who don't see how you can be Rajput and not a follower of Sanatana Dharma, but I have found them in the minority. The other views are as follows;
-It's a bloodline and so therefore even non-Hindus ones are kin.
-They don't really care.

Rajasthanis were in the process of Islamization under Mughals and even afterwards, hence they share a lot of similarities with Pakistanis culturally.

It was Ghandi’s ghar wapsi which eventually brought them back to Hinduism. Even now, BJP, RSS, Shiv Sena, Bajrang Dal are concentrating heavily on Rajastan to make it a breeding ground for Hindu extremism.

 

[M. Sarmad]

To all our Punjab-hating, (self claimed) Pakistani posters (OP included): please stop posting such useless and stupid threads and comments (using multiple ids) ... We should give up identifying ourselves with our tribes and castes to distance ourselves from the Indians? ... Okay, but then the Pashtuns should also stop identifying themselves with their tribes and clans to distance themselves from the Afghanis ... And the Baloch should also do the same to distance themselves from Iranians... Only a class A idiot could have come up with such an idea ... !!

 

[Great Janjua]

Duhr fitou mou

 

[Hamza913]

Duhr fitou mou

If you can't have a civilised discussion then don't comment at all.

We should give up identifying ourselves with our tribes and castes to distance ourselves from the Indians?

Read my first post again, there's more to it than that. And I was just pondering the subject, stop getting upset over it.

. Okay, but then the Pashtuns should also stop identifying themselves with their tribes and clans to distance themselves from the Afghanis ... And the Baloch should also do the same to distance themselves from Iranians...

That's not the main argument. The main argument is that we unnecessarily attach ourselves to these identities when they don't denote a common ancestry. Janjuas and Chauhans have different origins, yet they're both Rajputs. This is one example.

To all our Punjab-hating, (self claimed) Pakistani posters (OP included): please stop posting such useless and stupid threads and comments (using multiple ids)

Of course, you accuse me of being a fake Pakistani with multiple IDs.

Buzz off.