Punjab land in army control

[Leader]

What guud can we expect from our 'Leaders' when our actual leaders and intellectuals like Ahsan Iqbal, Tarek Fateh (whom we consider as learned) are oblivious of the facts and still raises the slaogans of the military eating up 80% of Pakistan's budget, despite the fact that now it is well documented that the military on gets 16% of the National Budget and the Army receives only 6-9% of the National Budget.

And here we are expecting a blogger and a 'writer to the editor' to tell us the truth??!! The only thing they can do is to vomit more lies and propaganda-it is their bread and butter, as some smokers cant take a shyt without a smoking cigarette, these haters also cant shat unless they have spewed hatred against the Army before positioning their buttocks on the throne!

So here's a (clearer) face-palm:

I think you need to "read" before you post "angrily". if you have read, read again then you wont need face-palm, in fact its better if you guys have anything as evidence that these lands are provincial/federal and the revenue from these lands is going to provincial or federal government, come clean through courts or by press release least to say. if its leased to Army for her use, show accounts to come clean !

 

[Jango]

Now please STFU and you better worry about those sarmachars waiting to teach you a lesson when you land in Balochistan!

I am sure alot of people did not read that thread that you put up. Better put up the link for that and shove it down some people's throats!!!

Ignorant people will always be ignorant. Better leave them be.

---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 AM ----------

I think you need to "read" before you post "angrily". if you have read, read again then you wont need face-palm, in fact its better if you guys have anything as evidence that these lands are provincial/federal and the revenue from these lands is going to provincial or federal government, come clean through courts or by press release least to say. if its leased to Army for her use, show accounts to come clean !

What accounts do you need to prove this land is for the army, and managed by the army?

They produce dairy products for their own consumption. Now is that wrong???

Why does not somebody challenge the construction of a whole lot of government buildings in the Blue Area of Isl?

It is the army's lad, whatever they do their problem, the revenue they get from it, it is theirs'.

 

[OrionHunter]

This is a grave violation of Articles 173 and 274 whereby the ownership of such lands lies with the federal and the provincial government, as the case may be.

No one can do a fig about this because no one has the balls to ruffle the feathers of the security establishments including the Army or the paramilitary forces.

The control of the army over these lands and any function towards allotment or contracts would be considered unlawful. All income accruing from these properties should have been deposited in the public exchequer and duly audited.

And then be deposited in the pockets of the politicians and bureaucrats? At least the Army is using that money for the benefit and welfare of troops which the civilian government would never think of doing!

Cheers!

 

[Leader]

What accounts do you need to prove this land is for the army, and managed by the army?

They produce dairy products for their own consumption. Now is that wrong???

Why does not somebody challenge the construction of a whole lot of government buildings in the Blue Area of Isl?

It is the army's lad, whatever they do their problem, the revenue they get from it, it is theirs'.

I even know a petrol pump near Gujaranwala is owned and run by a unit, I have no objection, as long as the profit is used for the soldiers's benefits.

however, if its going down in pocket of some general, Not only me, we all should be concern about it, and condemn it.

 

[Jango]

I even know a petrol pump near Gujaranwala is owned and run by a unit, I have no objection, as long as the profit is used for the soldiers's benefits.

however, if its going down in pocket of some general, Not only me, we all should be concern about it, and condemn it.

How do you know it is going down the throat of the general huh?

There are bakeris run by the army, and which employ civilans, and the profit goes to the unit, not the CO of that unit!!!

 

[Leader]

How do you know it is going down the throat of the general huh?

There are bakeris run by the army, and which employ civilans, and the profit goes to the unit, not the CO of that unit!!!

do workout on your reading habit.

 

[Jango]

do workout on your reading habit.

sorry, i have not read the opening post, was in a hurry!.

---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 PM ----------

And do you think that money from all the bakeries, school projects, construction projects etc is guzzled of by the generals and officers everytime everywhere?

 

[Leader]

sorry, i have not read the opening post, was in a hurry!.

---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 PM ----------

And do you think that money from all the bakeries, school projects, construction projects etc is guzzled of by the generals and officers everytime everywhere?

No, I dont think so, unless its reported, I dont suspect either.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

its different...i dont think the revenues from the lands held under MoD go to army as in case of pakistan..it goes to govt coffers audited by CAG...

And the revenue is then used by the government to fund various initiatives ....

The Military businesses (please look through Xeric's sticky in the Land Forces section discussing the Military Run businesses) in Pakistan pump most of the revenue into welfare schemes for soldiers, spouses and children, as well as various other retirement benefits etc.

If the revenues were not used to directly support these initiatives, and given to the GoP, then the GoP would have to reallocate similar amounts of money back to the military to fund various welfare initiatives and retirement benefits.

Either way, the money remains in the overall 'Government Pool' - better this way in fact since, unlike the civilian run businesses, the military run businesses make billions of rupees in profit, and pay hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes annually, rather than losing billions of dollars annually.

 

[Xeric]

I think you need to "read" before you post "angrily". if you have read, read again then you wont need face-palm, in fact its better if you guys have anything as evidence that these lands are provincial/federal and the revenue from these lands is going to provincial or federal government, come clean through courts or by press release least to say. if its leased to Army for her use, show accounts to come clean !

Why should we 'come clean?'

'Come clean' tu hum tab hongay na jab humnay koi chori ki hoge...keera apko kaat raha hai, go and bang your head at the Courts!!

You posted a stupid thing and i posted a rebuttal (though the post never deserved any), still if this pinches you guys so much, take us to the courts, why should we try to resolve queries when indeed there are none?

Our stance is for everyone to see, you got a problem with it, drag us to the courts man, just dont fcuk my brains anymore!

Seriously, if this 'issue' has been so real, by now with the presence of a ruthless media and an audacious Supreme Court, military would already have had been taken to the task on this 'encroachment'.

So like IB once said, buddy Leader you are doing an excellent job helping me to make up my mind NOT to vote for IK in the next elections

 

[Xeric]

I even know a petrol pump near Gujaranwala is owned and run by a unit, I have no objection, as long as the profit is used for the soldiers's benefits.

however, if its going down in pocket of some general, Not only me, we all should be concern about it, and condemn it.

Lolzz..that petrol pump (and many others) are not built on 'govt' land, it was either purchased readymade or built by the military itself on any other commercial plot as any other civilian would do. So there was not need to bring this point on this thread as this thread is concerning the 'illegal use of govt land' by the military (Army), or is it that sir Leader wants to get spanked every now and then by running in circles over the same stupid 'issues'?

But as you have brought it up, i would like to clarify none of the income from the gas station can go into the pocket of any one man, it's just impossible, so many eyes are watching, an so many people (troops' welfare items) are there to 'feed' and all of this is internally audited.

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Apart from this i would also like to narrate a story which has a bearing over this post;

Today i went to get my car's engine oil changed. My younger brother was with me, he is an auditor (CA) in some huge compnay. So while i was looking for a guud oil my brother asked me, 'yaar teri Army main nahi ata kaya engine oil sarkari garion k liye?' (implying that i should have used that).

After listening to him a couldnt think of anything and just kept looking at his face, he after sensing that he has screwed up, punched me and said, 'o bhai...kyn ghori jaraha hai? What he didnt know was that i was not ghoring him rather thinking how these (civilian) people can talk, think and actually do 2 numberi at their work places that they think we fauji would also be doing the same thing!!

i was surprised, i mean we cant even think of taking a piece of photocopy paper back home, whereas these guys would even bring sarkari tubelights, bulbs, printer cartridges, petrol/diesel, stationery and what all and what not at home for their personal use! Yes, i have seen my relatives doing it, may it be bureaucrats, VPs of banks or Executive Directors at some fortune 500 company.

It's just consider so unethical, stupid and shameful if any uniformed guy would even talk of doing such a thing.

Fortunately the 'environment' inside the military is such that no one even thinks of doing kam chori or any other kinda chori.

People like Leader probably deal with such kind of embezzlement and corruption on daily basis (not saying that he do it himself) that for them everyone (less themselves) is a 'chor', as far my reading goes this is a psychological problem - you consider everyone what you think of all day, no?

 

[Xeric]

however, if its going down in pocket of some general, Not only me, we all should be concern about it, and condemn it.

And for the holy love of God, STOP HYPOTHESIZING!!

'If its going down', 'if its being eaten', 'if there is corruption' etc etc...WTF's with this 'if'?

So if you have something solid to say just say so, just dont bring in 'letters to editors' or your intuitions which have no basis whatsoever, rather are just a figment of your imagination!!

O pai, inno koi chittar kiyon nai marda? Janab, i dont get paid for answering such stupid queries!!

 

[Icarus]

I can't help but miss out on this one. The land in Okara that is being discussed is the Military Dairy Farm and has been a property of the military since before partition! This revelation should do well to point out the substance of the charges of land-grabbing being levied against the Army. Secondly, the area with in 5KMs of the border is considered sensitive and NO buildings are erected in the specified radius. Last time I checked, this was Federal policy and I fail to see how this amounts to "Land-Grabbing" by the Army.

 

[Xeric]

And the revenue is then used by the government to fund various initiatives ....

The Military businesses (please look through Xeric's sticky in the Land Forces section discussing the Military Run businesses) in Pakistan pump most of the revenue into welfare schemes for soldiers, spouses and children, as well as various other retirement benefits etc.

If the revenues were not used to directly support these initiatives, and given to the GoP, then the GoP would have to reallocate similar amounts of money back to the military to fund various welfare initiatives and retirement benefits.

Either way, the money remains in the overall 'Government Pool' - better this way in fact since, unlike the civilian run businesses, the military run businesses make billions of rupees in profit, and pay hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes annually, rather than losing billions of dollars annually.

Agno in addition to what you have said, i must also clarify something.

There are a certain type of 'lands' that are used by the militaries espacially in South Asia. These can be; A1, A2, B1, B2, B3, B4 and C Land. The closest definition (open source) of each (though concerning india) that i could get if the following, this is almost similar to that of Pakistan's Armed Forces, so i think it would suffice here:

http://saiindia.gov.in/english/home..._2011/Defence_Services/Report_no_35/chap1.pdf

1.

2.

Please Note that in Pakistan's case these 'Lands' may not necessarily be "within" cantts, as there still are areas demarcated by the Federal Govt for construction of Cantts in future but either due to lack of resources, resistance by locals (Balochistan) or the security requirements (we dont need a cantt in Toba Tek Singh), we havent constructed those Cantts as of yet, but the area (Land) is still one of the above, hence 'inside the cantt'.

Also, as Keg pointed out a certain area short of the border (not specifying the distance) is 'owned' by the military as construction there can be detrimental to defence - or else, i hope you guys know that the New Lahore Airport is within the range of indian Artillery? Make sure not to travel through there in an event of war with india

Now, what these civilian dont understand or just dont want to understand is that though A1 land may not be used for commercial purposes, but then there's nothing wrong in using a barren patch of land near a border area which otherwise would be a mere wasteland, for the welfare of troops.

Now what these civilians want is that the military should work, put in use it's manpower, invest money, take the associated risks and then hand over the money thus earned to them, why bhai? Even this is alright, we can just hand it over to them, but when the income is dully audited by the MAG (Mil Accountant General- a civilian) and is channeled back specifically for the welfare purposes of NOKs of Shaheeds and troops, then why the shor sharaba? And even this shor sharaba is just a point scoring tactics, it's just to make fun of those civilians and the common man who dont know the rulings over 'military lands'.

Such civilians who once in a while would yap up this issue for earning cheap popularity are infact mocking the sensibilities of the common Pakistanis and fooling them, as anybody 'taking a panga with the military' is considered 'brave' these days; it has become a fashion!

What they dont know of is that they would be slapped each and every time whenever they would try to point fingers towards the military basing on false and self-conceived reports.

One more thing is that the rule concerning the use of land income is ambiguous as far as Pakistan is concerned as shown by this report, but then the military isnt doing anything illegal and therefore dont pay any heed to such accusations. The rulings that i have already posted amply clears up the doubts, if any.

Everything is legal, if it hasnt been, these jiyals would already have petitioned it to the courts and not just have exhausted themselves by writing letters to news editors, but they wont go to the courts because they know that they would receive an even more spanking from the Judges as their claims are false, so adadt sy majboor ho kar they feel comfortable and are satiated by mud slinging the military through their letters and posts on PDF

 

[Jango]

Just saw on the news today that the government ministries and other sarkari institutions are not paying their bills, and the government has to take loans, and hence there is interest on loans, and guess who pays that?

The people. And this amount is in billions of rupees. What about that Leader?