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Post-protest, govt rethinks US gun deal

angeldemon_007

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India's plans to urgently purchase M777 ultra-light howitzers from the US for deployment along the China border in the east have hit a roadblock as the Defence Ministry has developed second thoughts following an Army report that the gun may fall short of desired specifications.

While the Army, sources said, also took the line that these “deviations” were not that significant and could be waived, the Defence Ministry is taking no chances given the anti-corruption onslaught the government is under.

It is learnt to have asked the Army to further re-examine the deal as these specifications were drawn up by the Army itself.

The problem over this order of close to 150 guns, in fact, has to do with another global tender that the Army had issued for light howitzers. That tender process had run into a tangle after one of the key competitors — Singapore Technologies (ST) — had come under the CBI scanner in the ordnance factory scam. ST’s Pegasus gun at the time was the lead contender in the trials.

The government had then decided to go for a direct government-to-government deal with the US, under the Foreign Military sales route.

The deal is important because India wants to significantly upgrade its presence and capabilities on the India-China border, particularly in the eastern sector. The light howitzer gun was assessed to be the most appropriate artillery equipment in the hilly terrain.

The US gun on offer, M777, was accordingly considered. At that point, sources said, the Defence Ministry had made it clear that the specifications ought to be the same as those issued while floating the earlier global tender.

The Army, on its part, had pointed out that using the same yardstick could result in deviations.

As a result, the US gun, which is made of titanium and weighs about 4 tonnes, does fall short on some counts:

The angle of depression is not enough for it to fire at tanks.

There is no automatic loading facility as it does not have an auxiliary power unit, which would increase the weight.

It lacks a safety catch mechanism.

At the same time, sources pointed out, the gun has other positives like being simple to operate and proven in battle. The Army top brass is said to be of the view that this order should therefore be delinked from the original tender, and that the M777s be purchased to fill the gap now. The tender can be pursued as and when blacklisted firms are allowed to participate in trials, the Army feels.

With some of these blacklisted companies obtaining a stay from the Delhi High Court, delinking the two deals may be the only way out, except that the same specifications have been used in both cases. The entire issue, sources said, will only get more complicated in the days ahead.

Post-protest, govt rethinks US gun deal - Indian Express
 
God Sake buy some howitzers. It has been more than 20 years since bofors.

I heard that the original Bofors deal also included making some 1000+ howitzers in India under license, but that option was never exercised. Can any one comment on that?
 
DRDO is making its own howitzer we should award a contract to DSLI for developing howitzers as well in the mean time PLEASE procure proven off the shelf howitzers we have good military equipment but our artillery sucks the Bofors guns were one the major reasons why we won Kargil but now they are obsolete and must be upgraded or replaced

why not procure Israeli howitzers in the mean time just 150 of them until the DRDO howitzer is ready
 
God Sake buy some howitzers. It has been more than 20 years since bofors.

I heard that the original Bofors deal also included making some 1000+ howitzers in India under license, but that option was never exercised. Can any one comment on that?

The excercize was never excercized after the bofors scandal...and bofors was also blacklisted. Army is the least advanced of all 3 forces and they seem to have the biggest troubles. I am positive that M177 will be baught.
 
If we get these then our Mi26's will have a field day transporting them as they can transport four M777's in one go!(Mi26 Payload=20T......M777 weight=4T each...add the ammo and other support equipments):)
 
The light howitzer gun was assessed to be the most appropriate artillery equipment in the hilly terrain.

The US gun on offer, M777, was accordingly considered. At that point, sources said, the Defence Ministry had made it clear that the specifications ought to be the same as those issued while floating the earlier global tender.

The Army, on its part, had pointed out that using the same yardstick could result in deviations.

As a result, the US gun, which is made of titanium and weighs about 4 tonnes, does fall short on some counts:

The angle of depression is not enough for it to fire at tanks.

There is no automatic loading facility as it does not have an auxiliary power unit, which would increase the weight.

It lacks a safety catch mechanism.


I got a question here! Who assessed that M777 was appropriate, shouldn't it be someone from IA? And if that was the case, why their requirements changed now, especially how come that they didn't noticed that it has no automatic loading facility??? :hitwall:

Also, why the hell do they want to use them for direct fire at tanks and what are the Javelin ATGMs for that they procure as well? :hitwall:

These reasons doesn't make sense at all and just delaying things more and more, especially since they are meant for the Chinese borders one might think IA has an interest in speeding up things, but it seems the opposite is the case.


Army is the least advanced of all 3 forces

When it comes to procurments, or indigenous developments, I can't agree more on that!
 
Oh FFS!!! it seems MoD can't make a right decison to save their life!! What are they suggesting ? Wait for the Indian option? Cos you're gonna be waiting a LONG time in that case. Or wait till other open tender is complete? Do you know how long that takes? Trails, evaluations, negotiations etc!! The reason this deal is/was being done under FMS was TO SAVE TIME!! the MoD seemed to have missed that CRUCIAL point!! These Howitzers are for the LAC and the new mountain strike element sin the north and are much needed. And if the IA are saying these issue can be "overcome" then what's the F**KING problem??? I have no doubt if tomorrow a war broke out after all the bloodshed the GoI/MoD would fast track these procurements and would all get into a tizzy about who was to blame WHEN THEY ALL ARE!! AAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!



On of the finest military establishments IN THE WORLD being constantly let down by their incompetent political masters!!
 
The excercize was never excercized after the bofors scandal...and bofors was also blacklisted. Army is the least advanced of all 3 forces and they seem to have the biggest troubles. I am positive that M177 will be baught.

So we paid for the license but never made one single f****** gun. Great way to spent tax payer's money.

Bofors was blacklisted but where is the blueprints that we paid for?
 
Oh FFS!!! it seems MoD can't make a right decison to save their life!! What are they suggesting ? Wait for the Indian option? Cos you're gonna be waiting a LONG time in that case. Or wait till other open tender is complete? Do you know how long that takes? Trails, evaluations, negotiations etc!! The reason this deal is/was being done under FMS was TO SAVE TIME!! the MoD seemed to have missed that CRUCIAL point!! These Howitzers are for the LAC and the new mountain strike element sin the north and are much needed. And if the IA are saying these issue can be "overcome" then what's the F**KING problem??? I have no doubt if tomorrow a war broke out after all the bloodshed the GoI/MoD would fast track these procurements and would all get into a tizzy about who was to blame WHEN THEY ALL ARE!! AAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!



On of the finest military establishments IN THE WORLD being constantly let down by their incompetent political masters!!

Whats new? We ran out of LGBs during Kargil War and Thank God for Israelis replenishing the stocks from their own arsenal. Otherwise we would have faced a tough time in Kargil.
 
So we paid for the license but never made one single f****** gun. Great way to spent tax payer's money.

Bofors was blacklisted but where is the blueprints that we paid for?

That option can still be excercized, but Bofors has to come out of the list. (Still it is in black list) and the politics around it gets over, only then. Its sad but its the fact.
 
That option can still be excercized, but Bofors has to come out of the list. (Still it is in black list) and the politics around it gets over, only then. Its sad but its the fact.

Original Bofors is no more. It merged with BAE, but you are right ..Indian Govt especially congress is allergic to term 'Bofors'.
 
Original Bofors is no more. It merged with BAE, but you are right ..Indian Govt especially congress is allergic to term 'Bofors'.

Yes its BAE now, to add more plight we also have problem with BAE, the trainers...so :no:
 
WoW!!! Jai baba St. Antony!!! This deal was almost final and now almost canceled. :smokin::P




We can come to following conclusion after all these drama.....

1) No artillery in the world is capable enough to fulfill all the requirements of IA. Not even Uncle Sam's latest! Some US based NRI US lovers may be worried. lol


2) Some people in the MoD or IA does not want any further artillery get inducted into the IA.




Mark my word. by 2025 IN will get 4 new carriers, 5+ nuclear submarines, many destroyers and frigates while IAF will get many 5th generation fighters and IA will still lack an artillery good enough to meet their requirements. :lol:
 

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