Pervez hoodbhoy interview moroo podcast

[TheSolution]

Right now you seculars and nationalists are playing kid games. When things will get serious we Islamists will temporarily unite and take over.

What's your definition of "Islamist"?

 

[TheSolution]

Cause without pakistan both are f-ed - Urdu speakers for obvious reasons and Punjabi Muslims would get slapped around by hindutavas for fun , that's why I laugh at some fellow Lahoris who are a bit soft towards Indians compared to rest of the country - brah you're the first target lol

That's why I hate other ethnic nationalists, they're putting so many people at serious risk for their petty reasons, we had the first experience of partition, we know shit first hand, no other ethnicity of Pakistan had their women tens of thousands sold as sex slaves cause of thier relgious background nor anyone else is at risk of that

And than I hate my own for tolerating demons at the top and than getting blamed by all others for thier sheningons- we need to get our shit together

Everyone is fucked when it comes to ethnonationalists, not just Punjabis.

Someone made a pretty good post on this on the forum already explaining in detail. Check Khan2727's history

But basically India's chances of Akhand Bharat actually increase significantly

 

[villageidiot]

Did you hear that from Oreo Maqbool Jan?

P. Hoodbhoy | Semantic Scholar

Semantic Scholar profile for P. Hoodbhoy, with 41 highly influential citations and 130 scientific research papers.

www.semanticscholar.org

if you open the link, most of the articles are not science but the same political commentary i.e. vomit he does on Dawn.
and again. Appeal to authority.
Being a good rationalist, why don't you take his arguments from the video and try to prove those instead?

if an Islamic country will come under threats, the Islamists will fight to protect it

bro, to them there is no islamic country. only what they can get their hands on. that becomes their little dominion. same with the ethnonationalists. the islamists may try go full on ISIS on the opposition, but it won't be to preserve the integrity of this nation state, it'll be to fill as much of the power vaccum as they can. Like all over the middle east. None of those groups are trying to preserve their nation state boundaries. They are trying to export their influence as much as possible, incl into other nation states.
As things stand, only a central govt supported by a strong army is stopping these mofos.
Unfortunately, the army seems to have other priorities right this moment as well. and with the bond bw the army and the public weakening. Idk, what's going to happen.

 

[villageidiot]

convince everyone that Islam is better for them so they can voluntarily submit to the eternal truth.

who'll convince them? the jahil mullah? whose rozi roti is giving rousing speeches? bcoz that's who the general public listens to. people put them on pedestals like they are wali Allah.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Although Pakistani identity as a whole is weak it definitely has a presence, and I think overtime it will only get stronger

It’ll stay the same. Government isn’t doing anything neither to promote it or demote it.

We failed in 1971 because of our a$$hole politicians and generals. Nothing wrong with the Pakistani identity.

Bengalis rejected Pakistani identity

 

[TheSolution]

It’ll stay the same. Government isn’t doing anything neither to promote it or demote it.

The current government isn't, but it's inevitable that either a more capable government in this aspect will take power through help of the establishment that will work on this, or a military coup/civil war will eventually take place. Imran Khan was truly building soft unity, but he didn't actively work on it.

I think over time naturally Pakistan will stabilise but blood will be shed in one way or the other.

Bengalis rejected Pakistani identity

Bengalis rejected mistreatment, unfairness, racism, neglect, etc, which ultimately led them with no choice left.

 

[SecularNationalist]

Right now you seculars and nationalists are playing kid games. When things will get serious we Islamists will temporarily unite and take over.

Since when they started teaching you English in Lal Masjid?

Bengalis rejected Pakistani identity

Only after they have been pushed against the wall by greedy politicians like bhutto and similar generals.

 

[ahaider97]

if you open the link, most of the articles are not science but the same political commentary i.e. vomit he does on Dawn.
and again. Appeal to authority.
Being a good rationalist, why don't you take his arguments from the video and try to prove those instead?


bro, to them there is no islamic country. only what they can get their hands on. that becomes their little dominion. same with the ethnonationalists. the islamists may try go full on ISIS on the opposition, but it won't be to preserve the integrity of this nation state, it'll be to fill as much of the power vaccum as they can. Like all over the middle east. None of those groups are trying to preserve their nation state boundaries. They are trying to export their influence as much as possible, incl into other nation states.
As things stand, only a central govt supported by a strong army is stopping these mofos.
Unfortunately, the army seems to have other priorities right this moment as well. and with the bond bw the army and the public weakening. Idk, what's going to happen.

We all know who will be coming forward to defend Pakistan in a war or something, it won't be BLA and Sinhdudesh Army, Ganja and Zardari gangs will also leave. It will be your average Pakistani dude, with the obligation of Jihad motivating him. The highest number of volunteers will be coming from the Madrassahs and the middle class educational institutes.

 

[PakFactor]

It’ll stay the same. Government isn’t doing anything neither to promote it or demote it.



Bengalis rejected Pakistani identity

They did not accept Pakistan due to its identity but because of mistreatment. It's on record and historically documented by Pak Army officers of the abuses the higher ranks dished out on Bangeli-origin officers under them. I believe it was @Big Tank who once shared with me a link to the pages of a book written by officers stationed in present-day Bangladesh who wrote down things that were said, to the point telling junior officers he would sleep with their wives, to breed taller and fairer skin men.

When you have situations like this, who would want to stay as part of the family?

The other issue is political; Bhutto lost and was wrecked in the elections, but that soor ki aulad ai Gandi nasal ka bacha refused to step down and uttered the famous lines "we here, and they there, whoever goes there I will break there legs," and my that friend sealed the fate.

Pakistanis tend to be their own worst enemy; we do not need outside interference to destroy us. We are capable of doing it on our own.

 

[Maula Jatt]

They did not accept Pakistan due to its identity but because of mistreatment. It's on record and historically documented by Pak Army officers of the abuses the higher ranks dished out on Bangeli-origin officers under them. I believe it was @Big Tank who once shared with me a link to the pages of a book written by officers stationed in present-day Bangladesh who wrote down things that were said, to the point telling offers he would sleep with their wives, so they breed taller and fairer skin men.

When you have situations like this, who would want to stay as part of the family?

The other issue is political; Bhutto lost and was wrecked in the elections, but that soor ki aulad ai Gandi nasal ka bacha refused to step down and uttered the famous lines "we here, and they there," and my that friend sealed the fate.

Pakistanis tend to be their own worst enemy; we do not need outside interference to destroy us. We are capable of doing it on our own.

Is there a culture in the forces that lead's to this issue or our own culture in the whole country or a mix of both?

Or maybe it's the time's or the atmosphere

This is the same period or a year or two after

Ayub Khan pretty much said racist things about every ethnicity in Pak except probably his own, like old school, wild type a racist crap you'd hear in 50s US (not taking away from the fact that he was an able leader)

 

[ahaider97]

What's your definition of "Islamist"?

In this context, I mean that the secular types who say that partition was a mistake and the ethno-nationalists, would like to see Pakistan fall, but the average Pakistani Muslim would want Pakistan to survive. I also don't trust the politicians with the fate of Pakistan, it was their stupidity that led to Bangladesh separating, their stupid role in that can not be ignored.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Being a good rationalist, why don't you take his arguments from the video and try to prove those instead?

I would, over a cup of coffee, if I believed we could have a discussion on the topic with the sincere intention of reaching the truth of the problem under discussion. Which of Hoodbhoy's contentions in the podcast do you disagree with?

As for Tyson's lecture, I would not posit Ghazali's polemics against philosophy and mathematics as the genesis of the intellectual collapse of the Middle East in the 14th century. This is my position: the genesis was a dialectic between a faith-based and a positivist understanding of the world. The former won and rational thought collapsed. The importance of Ghazali's polemics is that they are the most prominent manifestation of this dialectic available, which makes them so interesting to those interested in understanding the phenomenon.

 

[ahaider97]

I would, over a cup of coffee, if I believed we could have a discussion on the topic with the sincere intention of reaching the truth of the problem under discussion. Which of Hoodbhoy's contentions in the podcast do you disagree with?

As for Tyson's lecture, I would not posit Ghazali's polemics against philosophy and mathematics as the genesis of the intellectual collapse of the Middle East in the 14th century. This is my position: the genesis was a dialectic between a faith-based and a positivist understanding of the world. The former won and rational thought collapsed. The importance of Ghazali's polemics is that they are the most prominent manifestation of this dialectic available, which makes them so interesting to those interested in understanding the phenomenon.

Why would a faith based understanding of the world lead to intellectual collapse? On the other hands thanks to positivism and scientism, the world is the on the verge of nuclear armageddon, when nothing is sacred, everything is permitted.

UNO reverse.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Why would a faith based understanding of the world lead to intellectual collapse? On the other hands thanks to positivism and scientism, the world is the on the verge of nuclear armageddon, when nothing is sacred, everything is permitted.

Valid questions. I would not continue this discussion online because we are now in the territory of epistemology (and ethics). These are best discussed face to face. If we discuss these here, we are likely argue in circles.

 

[ahaider97]

Valid questions. I would not continue this discussion online because we are now in the territory of epistemology (and ethics). These are best discussed face to face. If we discuss these here, we are likely argue in circles.

Plus, I'm not qualified to have these discussions. Thanks for trying to save both of ours time. I would have just kept messing with you.