Palestinians to join International Criminal Court

[Solomon2]

Sunday, January 04, 2015

Why is "Palestine"'s ICC application retroactive to June 13, 2014?

Here is the letter from Mahmoud Abbas to the ICC:


Why is the application requesting it to be effective retroactively to June 13, 2014?

Because on June 12, 2014, Palestinian Arab terrorists kidnapped and murdered three Israeli teens, Naftali Fraenkel, Gilad Shaer, and Eyal Yifrah, from the supposed territory of "Palestine" which they claim to be part of "Palestine."

Which is a war crime under the Rome Statute.

So Mahmoud Abbas is saying that the application should only be retroactive to June 13, when Israeli forces started to frantically look for the teens still hoped to be alive. Because he isn't interested in justice - but heis interested in protecting his Hamas partner from being indicted for a war crime that they brag about..

The cynicism is breathtaking.

Not that Mahmoud Abbas is alone in this cynical use of dates to frame Israel as being guilty of war crimes without context.

The exact same thing was done by William Schabas, chair of the UNHRC investigation into the events of last summer - a mandate that explicitly excludes the kidnapping of the three Israeli teens but that includes Israel's response to the kidnappings by choosing to only investigate events from June 13th.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

settlements

Establishing settlements is done by the settlers, and this is done on a voluntary basis.
II may be wrong, but I think Israeli governments has given favourable economic conditions
to immigrants, if they move to the West Bank.
Deportation and forcible transfers of people is something completely different, so no, that is not applicable.

 

[Gufi]

II may be wrong, but I think Israeli governments has given favourable economic conditions

they uproot inhabitants and their farms then they kick them out and then they build settlements how legal is that ?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Sunday, January 04, 2015

Why is "Palestine"'s ICC application retroactive to June 13, 2014?

Here is the letter from Mahmoud Abbas to the ICC:


Why is the application requesting it to be effective retroactively to June 13, 2014?

Because on June 12, 2014, Palestinian Arab terrorists kidnapped and murdered three Israeli teens, Naftali Fraenkel, Gilad Shaer, and Eyal Yifrah, from the supposed territory of "Palestine" which they claim to be part of "Palestine."

Which is a war crime under the Rome Statute.

So Mahmoud Abbas is saying that the application should only be retroactive to June 13, when Israeli forces started to frantically look for the teens still hoped to be alive. Because he isn't interested in justice - but heis interested in protecting his Hamas partner from being indicted for a war crime that they brag about..

The cynicism is breathtaking.

Not that Mahmoud Abbas is alone in this cynical use of dates to frame Israel as being guilty of war crimes without context.

The exact same thing was done by William Schabas, chair of the UNHRC investigation into the events of last summer - a mandate that explicitly excludes the kidnapping of the three Israeli teens but that includes Israel's response to the kidnappings by choosing to only investigate events from June 13th.

Kinda stupid to have retroactivity.
The application should be accepted either from the date it was filed, or from the beginning of the conflict, which is 1948 or even earlier.

they uproot inhabitants and their farms then they kick them out and then they build settlements how legal is that ?

Depends on the law.
Saw a program on the legal basis of settlements, and the Israelis are apparently acting
using the laws from the Turkish dominion over the area called "Dead Land".
If someone owns a piece of land but does not use it, the government can confiscate it, all according to law.
That is why a lot of rocky hilltops gave "legally" been confiscated and used for settlements.

They also kick out people that settle in "Area C" according to the Oslo agreement.

There are of course other examples where settlers occupy an area without a legal basis,
since the Israeli government from time to time close down such settlements.
That is still not something for the ICC, which does not handle such crimes.

 

[Gufi]

That is still not something for the ICC, which does not handle such crimes.

actually the wall which was built clearly cut people's land into half and farms are part of the land one owns and they come under forcible transfer of population if you do it with guns it is forced

 

[Hindustani78]

Israel withholds funds, weighs lawsuits against Palestinians| Reuters
Jan 3, 2015

In a first punitive response, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu decided in consultation with senior ministers on Thursday to withhold the next monthly transfer of tax revenue, totaling some 500 million shekels ($125 million), an Israeli official said on Saturday.

The tax revenues are critical to running the Palestinian Authority, which exercises limited self-rule, and paying public sector salaries. Israel took a similar step in December 2012, freezing revenue transfers for three months in anger at the Palestinians' launch of a campaign for recognition of statehood at the United Nations.

"This is highway robbery. Not only is this illegal, they are adding money theft to land theft. The revenues belong to the Palestinian people, they go to pay salaries and support our economy. Israel has no business deciding to steal our funds," senior Palestinian negotiator Hanan Ashrawi told Reuters.

Under interim peace deals from the 1990s, Israel collects at least $100 million a month in duties on behalf of the Palestinian Authority.

US opposes Israel's freeze on Palestinian tax revenue | Zee News
Tuesday, January 6, 2015

Washington: The United States said on Monday it opposes a move by Israel to freeze the transfer of tax revenues to the Palestinian Authority in retaliation for its bid to join the International Criminal Court.


"This step is one that raises tensions as others do," State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said.

Israel imposed the freeze in response to a bid by the Palestinian Authority to join the International Criminal Court in the Hague, and threatened further retaliatory action.

US Secretary of State John Kerry spoke with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu over the weekend and a US team has been in touch with Palestinian leaders.

"What we are trying to avoid here is a back and forth tit-for-tat," Psaki said.

After the Palestinians won the upgraded UN rank of observer state in November 2012, Israel froze the tax monies and also announced plans for 3,000 homes in a highly sensitive area of the West Bank, as well as in annexed east Jerusalem, triggering a furious response from the international community.

The latest freeze involves half a billion shekels in tax revenue, or about USD 127 million.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

actually the wall which was built clearly cut people's land into half and farms are part of the land one owns and they come under forcible transfer of population if you do it with guns it is forced

Noone is forced to move due to the wall. People may not have access to part of their lands,
but legally, that is not deportation.

An occupying power has rights to create military strongpoints and defensive lines anywhere it chooses.

The criticism against the wall is that it might be defining a future border.

Israel prefers to look at the West Bank as "contested".
If you buy the Palestinian position, it is occupied, but then the crime becomes a reality first when Israel annexes the land, not before.

Right now, it is not a crime, as far as I can tell.

 

[Falcon29]

Establishing settlements is done by the settlers, and this is done on a voluntary basis.

What in the phuck are you talking about asswipe? 'Voluntary' basis? Your credibility just went in the trash bin. Settlements are all established by Israeli government and Israeli government manages all funding/projects for all settlements.

Israel prefers to look at the West Bank as "contested".
If you buy the Palestinian position, it is occupied, but then the crime becomes a reality first when.

No one asked about Israeli position stupid asshole. Palestinian 'position' is position shared by international community.

You are arguing on basis of international law yet at same time trying to shove down our throat how Israel views it(also how you do).

 

[Gufi]

What in the phuck are you talking about asswipe? 'Voluntary' basis? Your credibility just went in the trash bin. Settlements are all established by Israeli government and Israeli government manages all funding/projects for all settlements.

i tried explaining it too many times i gave up so should you some times people need to argue for fun and this is one of these people

 

[Falcon29]

i tried explaining it too many times i gave up so should you some times people need to argue for fun and this is one of these people

He is very biased person who claims to argue from position of international law while instead giving us positions of Israeli government. He supports right wing parties in Sweden but I'm not sure how that encourages him to be anti-Palestinian. It makes no sense.

 

[Gufi]

He is very biased person who claims to argue from position of international law while instead giving us positions of Israeli government. He supports right wing parties in Sweden but I'm not sure how that encourages him to be anti-Palestinian. It makes no sense.

sometimes it is best to ignore people who no nothing about realities but speak from biases

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

What in the phuck are you talking about asswipe? 'Voluntary' basis? Your credibility just went in the trash bin. Settlements are all established by Israeli government and Israeli government manages all funding/projects for all settlements.

No one asked about Israeli position stupid asshole. Palestinian 'position' is position shared by international community.

You are arguing on basis of international law yet at same time trying to shove down our throat how Israel views it(also how you do).

What I meant, is that noone is forced by the Israeli Government to move to any settlement.
Thus the settlements are not a case of deportation.
I don't disagree with that Housing and Infrastructure is payed for by the Israeli Government.

What the International Community thinks and what is legit, is often not the same time.
That is why I think this is best handled by courts where everyone gets their chance to present their case.

If you want to argue about international law, then feel free to show which laws support your case.
Lawyers will not look for a majority vote from the International community, so you need to
present real arguments.

Israel spends a lot of effort to find loopholes in International Law, so many of their activities
are legal, even if they are not fair, so Palestinians need to think hard if they want to win their cases.

As for Palestinians, I believe that their right to a state is severly tainted by their methods.
Their struggle show a total disregard for International Law, and it has always been like this.
I see very little difference between Hamas and ISIS, except that Hamas have less capability
to attack its enemies. On top of that, they do not appreciate the help they get from abroad, something that many posters from Muslim countries has expressed here at PDF.

 

[Hindustani78]

UN chief says Palestine will join int'l court on April 1 | Zee News
Wednesday, January 7, 2015 - 16:46

United Nations: UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has said that the state of Palestine will join the International Criminal Court on April 1, a high-stakes move that will enable the Palestinians to pursue war-crimes charges against Israel.


The Palestinians submitted the documents ratifying the Rome Statute that established the court last Friday, the last formal step to accepting the jurisdiction of the world's permanent war crimes tribunal. The UN said the secretary- general would review the paperwork.

In a statement posted yesterday on the UN's treaty website, the secretary-general announced his acceptance of the documents saying "the statute will enter into force for the State of Palestine on April 1, 2015" in accordance with the court's procedures.

He said he was "acting in his capacity as depositary" for the documents of ratification.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas signed documents to join the ICC a day after the UN Security Council rejected a resolution on December 30 that would have set a three-year deadline for the establishment of a Palestinian state on lands occupied by Israel.

Joining the ICC is part of a broader Palestinian strategy to pressure Israel into withdrawing from the territories and agreeing to Palestinian statehood.

Abbas has been under heavy domestic pressure to take stronger action against Israel after a 50-day war between the Jewish state and militants in Gaza over the summer, tensions over holy sites in Jerusalem, and the failure of the last round of US-led peace talks.

The Palestinian decision to join the ICC has already sparked retaliation from Israel which froze the transfer of more than USD 100 million in tax funds collected for the Palestinians on Saturday. It promised tougher action on Sunday.

The United States also opposed the move, calling it an obstacle to reaching a permanent peace agreement that would give the Palestinians an independent state.

The Obama administration on Monday said it was reviewing its annual USD 440 million aid package to the Palestinians because of the decision to join the ICC.

While Palestinian membership in the ICC doesn't automatically incur US punishment, any Palestinian case against Israel at the court would trigger an immediate cutoff of US financial support under American law.
Palestinian Ambassador Riyad Mansour said last week that the Palestinians are seeking to raise alleged crimes committed by Israel, including last summer's war in Gaza.