Palestinians to join International Criminal Court

[Hindustani78]

Palestinians to join International Criminal Court - Daily Sabah

Stung by a resounding defeat in the U.N. Security Council, the Palestinians announced Wednesday that they joined the International Criminal Court to pursue war crimes charges against Israel.

The move by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas set the stage for a diplomatic showdown with the United States and drew an angry response from Israel.

"The one who needs to fear the International Criminal Court in the Hague is the Palestinian Authority, which has a unity government with Hamas," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in a statement.

"We will take steps in response and defend Israel's soldiers," Netanyahu said in a statement.

Netanyahu called Israel's soldiers "the most moral army in the world" and said the country would take unspecified "retaliatory steps."

U.S. State Department spokesman Edgar Vasquez said America strongly opposed the move and warned it would be "counter-productive and do nothing to further the aspirations of the Palestinian people for a sovereign and independent state."

"It will badly damage the atmosphere with the very people with whom they ultimately need to make peace," Vasquez said in a statement.

Abbas has been under heavy domestic pressure to take action against Israel following months of tensions fueled by the collapse of U.S.-brokered peace talks, a 50-day war between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza, a spate of deadly Palestinian attacks on Israeli targets and Israeli restrictions on Palestinian access to a key Muslim holy site in Jerusalem. Tuesday's defeat in the U.N. Security Council further raised pressure on Abbas to act.

"We want to complain. There's aggression against us, against our land. The Security Council disappointed us," Abbas said as he gathered a meeting of the Palestinian leadership in the West Bank.

Abbas had threatened to join the international court if Tuesday's Security Council resolution failed. The Palestinians had asked the council to set a three-year deadline for Israel to withdraw from all occupied lands claimed by the Palestinians.

After two decades of failed, on-again, off-again peace talks, the Palestinians have grown disillusioned and decided to seek international recognition of their independence in the absence in various global bodies. While the campaign does not change the situation on the ground, the Palestinians believe the strong international support will put pressure on Israel to allow the creation of a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and east Jerusalem.

Israel, which captured the three areas in 1967, says Palestinian independence can only be reached through negotiations. It opposes the Palestinian diplomatic campaign as an attempt to bypass negotiations.

The Palestinian campaign scored a major victory in 2012 when Palestine was admitted to the U.N. General Assembly as a nonmember observer state. This upgraded status gave the Palestinians the authority to join dozens of international treaties and agencies.

Still, turning to the International Criminal Court marks a major policy shift by transforming Abbas' relations with Israel from tense to openly hostile. Abbas has been threatening to join the court since 2012, but held off under American and Israeli pressure. The Palestinians can use the court to challenge the legality of Israeli settlement construction on occupied lands and to pursue war crimes charges connected to military activity.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Good, if issues are resolved by courts, instead if by War.

 

[Hindustani78]

Israel mulls war crimes lawsuits against top Palestinians: source| Reuters
Sat Jan 3, 2015

(Reuters) - Israel is looking at ways to prosecute senior Palestinians for war crimes in the United States and elsewhere in response to Palestinian steps to join the International Criminal Court, an Israeli official said on Saturday.

The Palestinians delivered to U.N. headquarters in New York on Friday documents on joining the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court and other global treaties, saying they hoped to achieve "justice for all the victims that have been killed by Israel, the occupying power".

The Hague-based court looks at cases of severe war crimes and crimes against humanity such as genocide.

The Israeli official said Palestinian leaders "ought to fear legal steps" after their decision to sign onto the Rome Statute.

"Israel is weighing the possibilities for large-scale prosecution in the United States and elsewhere" of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and other senior Palestinians, the official said.

Israel would probably press these cases via non-governmental groups and pro-Israel legal organisations capable of filing lawsuits abroad, a second Israeli official said, explaining how the mechanism might work.

Israel sees the heads of the Palestinian Authority in the occupied West Bank as collaborators with Hamas militant Islamists in Gaza because of a unity deal they forged in April, the first official said.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has previously warned that unilateral moves by the Palestinian Authority at the United Nations would expose its leaders to prosecution over support for Hamas, viewed by Israel as a terrorist organisation.

"(Hamas) ... commits war crimes, shooting at civilians from civilian populated areas," the official said, alluding to a war in Gaza last summer in which more than 2,100 Palestinians and more than 70 Israelis died.

Palestinians seek a state in Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem - lands Israel captured in the 1967 Middle East War.

Momentum to recognise a Palestinian state has built since Abbas succeeded in a bid for de facto recognition of Palestinian statehood at the U.N. General Assembly in 2012, which made Palestinians eligible to join the ICC.

The United States, Israel's main ally, supports an eventual independent Palestinian state, but has argued against unilateral moves like Friday's, saying they could damage the peace process.

Washington sends about $400 million in economic support aid to the Palestinians every year. Under U.S. law, that aid would be cut off if the Palestinians used membership in the ICC to press claims against Israel.

(Writing by Allyn Fisher-Ilan; Editing by Gareth Jones)


State of Israel is threatening Palestinian authority because Palestinian Authority is going ahead to join 19 International institutions which means no one can stop the formation of Independent Palestine state prior to 1967 borders.

Abbas signed the papers to join the Rome Statute of the ICC -- its founding treaty -- as well as 19 other international and United Nations organizations at the opening of a leadership meeting in Ramallah called to discuss the next step after failure of the U.N. bid.

 

[Gufi]

U.S. State Department spokesman Edgar Vasquez said America strongly opposed the move and warned it would be "counter-productive and do nothing to further the aspirations of the Palestinian people for a sovereign and independent state."

a joke like the US can or wants to help any proper peace deals.

Israel would probably press these cases via non-governmental groups and pro-Israel legal organisations capable of filing lawsuits abroad, a second Israeli official said, explaining how the mechanism might work.

Diplomatic immunity covers most officials.

 

[Hindustani78]

a joke like the US can or wants to help any proper peace deals.

Diplomatic immunity covers most officials.

I think United states Adm is already aware of all this just want State of Israel to understand by itself. United states even agree on establishment of Independent Palestine state prior to 1967 borders.

 

[Hindustani78]

Israel withholds funds, weighs lawsuits against Palestinians| Reuters
Jan 3, 2015

In a first punitive response, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu decided in consultation with senior ministers on Thursday to withhold the next monthly transfer of tax revenue, totaling some 500 million shekels ($125 million), an Israeli official said on Saturday.

The tax revenues are critical to running the Palestinian Authority, which exercises limited self-rule, and paying public sector salaries. Israel took a similar step in December 2012, freezing revenue transfers for three months in anger at the Palestinians' launch of a campaign for recognition of statehood at the United Nations.

"This is highway robbery. Not only is this illegal, they are adding money theft to land theft. The revenues belong to the Palestinian people, they go to pay salaries and support our economy. Israel has no business deciding to steal our funds," senior Palestinian negotiator Hanan Ashrawi told Reuters.

Under interim peace deals from the 1990s, Israel collects at least $100 million a month in duties on behalf of the Palestinian Authority.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

a joke like the US can or wants to help any proper peace deals.

Diplomatic immunity covers most officials.

I think you have misunderstood diplomatic immunity.
This protects officials when they are abroad representing their country,
and must be agreed on with the country beeing visited.
I.E. A head of state that unannounced/uninvited visits a country on holiday has no diplomatic immunity.

Likewise, an official has no diplomatic immunity while at home.

If Palestinians join ICC, the lawyers can prosecute all top members of Hamas or Fatah,
if they are suspected for crimes within the jurisdiction of ICC.

ICC will only address a restricted set of offenses, like crime vs humanity,
so a lot of things Palestinians would like to bring to court will not be possible to do via ICC.

The Goldberg report points out the indicriminate firing of missiles as pissible crimes vs Humanity.

Another danger is that the ICC court can decide that Palestinians have no right to claim all of the West Bank.
Lawyers are supposed to judge according to laws, and not according to what is fair.
I dont see that there is any country can claim the West Bank based on law.

Turkey had claim, but signed it away to Great Britain, which controlled the area under a mandate from
the League of Nations. They left and the area was occupied by Jordan, and then later by Israel.
Jordan has given up its claim.
The Palestinians have not, until recently, signed the Geneva Conventions.
The Geneva Conventions are only applicable to signees.
I do not think råthat they can be used retroactively, so legally Israel is bound by those conventions
only after they are signed.
Since occupation occured before the signature, Israel might get carte blanche.

If Palestinians fight a legal battle, they might end up with less than can be achieved through negotiations.

They for sure are going to need some smart lawyers.

 

[Gufi]

I.E. A head of state that unannounced/uninvited visits a country on holiday has no diplomatic immunity.

the Palestinians have enough Arab countries who would host these leaders or let them visit
And there is no country that will try another country head of state it is not in their legal jurisdiction

ICC will only address a restricted set of offenses, like crime vs humanity,

the cases that will be brought forth with UN reports etc showing crimes against humanity etc are already present. They carry a lot of weight in courts

Another danger is that the ICC court can decide that Palestinians have no right to claim all of the West Bank.
Lawyers are supposed to judge according to laws, and not according to what is fair.

the border issue will be raised and there are many property claims etc that will be looked at

Since occupation occured before the signature, Israel might get carte blanche.

that is some wishful thinking on your part

 

[Falcon29]

First Palestinian ICC case to be Gaza war: rights group - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

The first case the Palestinians will refer to the International Criminal Court will be the "crimes" Israel committed during summer 2014, including the Gaza war, a legal expert said Sunday.
On January 2, the Palestinians presented a formal request to join the Hague-based court in a move which opens the way for them to file suit against Israeli officials for alleged war crimes in the occupied territories.

The ICC can prosecute individuals accused of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes committed since July 1, 2002, when the court's founding treaty, the Rome Statute, came into force.

If the application process goes as planned, the Palestinians should be able to refer a case in early April, with legal preparations to that end already well under way.

Shawan Jabarin, director of the Ramallah-based rights group Al-Haq, said the Palestinians had decided to file suit over Israel's actions in the West Bank and Gaza Strip starting from June 13, 2014.

..........................................

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

the Palestinians have enough Arab countries who would host these leaders or let them visit
And there is no country that will try another country head of state it is not in their legal jurisdiction

the cases that will be brought forth with UN reports etc showing crimes against humanity etc are already present. They carry a lot of weight in courts

the border issue will be raised and there are many property claims etc that will be looked at

that is some wishful thinking on your part

Certainly you can try a head of state. The Nürnberg trials are one example, Milosevic is another.

Crimes vs Humanity:

For the purpose of this Statute, "crime against humanity" means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack:[24]

(a) Murder;
(b) Extermination;
(c) Enslavement;
(d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
(e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;
(f) Torture;
(g) Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
(h) Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;
(i) Enforced disappearance of persons;
(j) The crime of apartheid;
(k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health;

While I am pretty sure that Israel does: a,e, f, but not to the degree that it consist of crimes vs humanity.
As for h, Israel is targetting Hamas and similar organisations, but I doubt it can be called persecution, it's a war.

(H): Certainly Arabs on the occupied areas are suffering hardship, but Israeli Arabs are subject to the same laws
as the Jews. Obviously declaring Israel as a Jewish state is bound to make non-Jews to feel less welcome.

 

[Gufi]

The Nürnberg trials are one example, Milosevic is another.

here one time the allies were in the country invading it and held trials and the other the PM of the time turned the man over to ICC

While I am pretty sure that Israel does: a,e, f, but not to the degree that it consist of crimes vs humanity.

Add D and H

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

here one time the allies were in the country invading it and held trials and the other the PM of the time turned the man over to ICC

Add D and H

Which means that they did not have any immunity.
Immunity is not something you get by your position.
It is something a foreign country grants you.
If you are in a country, that country has full jurisdiction over anyone there, head of state or not,
unless immunity has been granted.

Already mentioned H.
D is not applicable as far as I can tell.
People fleeing due to the 1948 war is not the same as the deportation of the Crimean Tatars by Stalin. It was a voluntary act (with decision to be made between nothing but bad choices)
Not allowing people to return after the war is not a crime (but I would support such a law).
While there is unacceptable pressure on Arabs to leave, let's say Jerusalem, I doubt it can be deemed crime vs humanity.

 

[Gufi]

D is not applicable as far as I can tell.

settlements

 

[Hindustani78]

First Palestinian ICC case to be Gaza war: rights group - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

The first case the Palestinians will refer to the International Criminal Court will be the "crimes" Israel committed during summer 2014, including the Gaza war, a legal expert said Sunday.
On January 2, the Palestinians presented a formal request to join the Hague-based court in a move which opens the way for them to file suit against Israeli officials for alleged war crimes in the occupied territories.

The ICC can prosecute individuals accused of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes committed since July 1, 2002, when the court's founding treaty, the Rome Statute, came into force.

If the application process goes as planned, the Palestinians should be able to refer a case in early April, with legal preparations to that end already well under way.

Shawan Jabarin, director of the Ramallah-based rights group Al-Haq, said the Palestinians had decided to file suit over Israel's actions in the West Bank and Gaza Strip starting from June 13, 2014.

..........................................

The UN confirmed receipt of the documents, and said the next steps were being reviewed. It will take a minimum of 60 days for the request to come into effect.

So we are going to see things after 60 days but by that time PA will join other UN and International bodies.

 

[Syrian Lion]

Palestine will prove that ICC is a joke, ICC will not dare make a move against Israel.... if ICC was real it would have started with western war criminals...