Pakistan's Special Operations Forces: SSG | SSGN | SSW | SOW | SOG

[Keysersoze]

I am not a complete nutcase therefore I am not a para

If you really want to know please feel free to PM me as I will not post it out on here, if you will forgive me.

 

[blain2]

Yeah I understand about operating in dustbowl environs as I have operated in a area where it was an issue. However we (and pretty much everyone else) used goggles, as the type of glasses used in the picture don't keep dust out. So probably as you said, they were trying to look the part for the inspection.

Again as to the body armour thing. I have worn most kinds and I am aware of the weights involved. For short periods of time (and depending on the heat of the environment)the weight is not a problem as adrenaline makes it all feel light. Trust me regarding the helmet....the only time I was glad of it was when we were getting mortared.
But extended operation it is cumbersome (and in some areas useless as the enemy might have armour defeating ammunition.)
I used a incorrect term in a previous post when I said intervention. I should have written assault. Whilst I am sure the SWAT guys are very good in their field (Interventions and hostage rescue) they generally go into specific threat types. Hence body armour would be of an advantage.(second man in the room wears more as he/she is more likely to get hit) (confined spaces etc etc) The guys (there are more then one but I can't always get to ask them as they are not always around lol) are SAS (or ex) and generally have operated in a number of different situations. armour is more important to regular force as opposed to SF
Anyway........

Glasses or goggles is a minor issue. If they have it, they use it, otherwise they do without. That is plain and simple how our guys are trained.

Its funny that you mention SAS guys as your source (impressing by affiliation ;-) especially for dynamic entry/MOE type stuff. The interesting thing is that my own friend who was in the US Army (around 9/11 he was actually teaching at USMA, West Point) and later got attached to the USSF and briefly worked with TF-20 during their hunt for Saddam Hussain mentioned to me that he watched both the SAS guys and the DF guys operate in Iraq and by far for MoE and DE type stuff, the DF guys were a cut above all others and SAS were ok. He even mentioned to me that in many of the Special Ops work, some of the Polish SF were very good...overall he was not too impressed by the SAS. Now that is his opinion and I only share it to back up what I am trying to say which is that we all have our preferences, biases and ways and means to get things done. The fact that you notice something as basic as eye-wear of the SSG operators and make a comment about the uselessness of the gear without even knowing the exact context or reasons for wearing shows bias to some extent.

I can go back into quite a few other stories about the Western SF and the misplaced aura around them but it does not help here. All I am saying is that if for some reason SAS does something, it does not mean that it is neccessarily the smartest thing or the way that all of the rest should do it.

I personally could care less about the way an operator looks or the gear he has which btw has become the ill-conceived norm to judge the fitness of a SF outfits nowadays...so in the end I value your opinion, however I believe it lacks a certain context.

Regards

 

[blain2]

BTW,

I realized how stupid a thing we are discussing here...les discuss something of substance instead of the eye protection etc.

 

[Keysersoze]

I take your point about the mystique surrounding SF and have made the point on this forum myself.

However I must take umbrage at the comments of your friend. For any AMERICAN to comment on any type of work of this nature is just amusing to me. There may well be some extremely capable US units and individuals, but as a whole they have no clue at all. They would create more enemies than they would defeat. (We prefered not to patrol with them and their general attitude toward the locals made me see red at times. this was recently reinforced when a friend came back from Afghan and said they also refused to patrol with the yanks as they would get abuse when with them.)

And I would add that I have more respect for the SAS not for their martial aspects but rather for their ability NOT to alienate local populations and create dragged out wars. They have been doing it longer than most of the others and successfully. (Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia are great examples of how not to run things......)Didn't the PAK army have to pull out the Americans in Mogadishu?

Our unofficial motto's included "Do everything that is necessary, nothing that is not" and "polished boots don't stop bullets" hence me being picky in regards to silly showmanship. However I would also add (if you look at the post) i was merely asking why they were wearing them.

We are all biased my friend...........

 

[sword9]

We are all biased my friend...........

Me too....In a joint US Brit exercise, the SAS and Delta guys slithered down choppers, and had to clear a house,...the SAS were already inside the house, when the Delta chaps were still at the ropes.

 

[GOD OF WAR]

All of the US Special Units are OverHyped, thanx to hollywood and the general notion of the typical american that US is the best of the best. BOO HOO would be more appropriate than HOO YA

The SAS is the father of SF. its no nes that Delta was concieved keeping the SAS in mind

 

[sparten]

Hey, Keyseroze Britannia knows how to lord it over people that do not want them there. And they know (like the Romans did) when to be cruel, when to be kind.

As for the Yanks, well their saying is "when you squeeze their balls, their hearts and minds will follow". However, they fail to realize that you'll probably get a punch to the jawbone.

 

[Keysersoze]

Hey, Keyseroze Britannia knows how to lord it over people that do not want them there. And they know (like the Romans did) when to be cruel, when to be kind.

As for the Yanks, well their saying is "when you squeeze their balls, their hearts and minds will follow". However, they fail to realize that you'll probably get a punch to the jawbone.

Well yes (at the leadership level) you are correct. Hence the ability for such a small nation to as it were, "punch above it's weight"
As individuals it varies from the "ef em all" type, to the ones who genuinely care about the people they work with.

 

[zraver]

US SF used outside of its mission box is like using a hammer to peel a tomato. However inside of thier mission box they are among the best in the world.

Need to take down a plane, board a ship, etc. Working with locals is not a US specialty except among the Green Berets.

 

[sparten]

The US Army has a whole host of SPF. Delta Force, Green Beret's, Rangers etc.

Bit of an overkill.

 

[zraver]

it depends, becuase SOCOM is so big it has a plethora of specialsit units to use for specialist purposes. The problem is to many US Commanders think that any SF unit can do any mission, a beleif often fosted by the SF unit commanders themselves in the constant struggle to gain prominence.

When US SF units are used proplery they are leathaly effective. When improperly used they are leathaly ineffective.

 

[GOD OF WAR]

hey spartan, we mean over kill or ROAD-KILL

BTW since the marines are officially part of the SOCOM now, are they still called Force Recon or what? new logo? new MOS?!?!

 

[blain2]

When US SF units are used proplery they are leathaly effective. When improperly used they are leathaly ineffective.

This is a phenomena that has been seen world-wide (or by those countries that have a viable special ops capability). Proper employment of SF assets is an essential part that leads to success. In Pakistan too, our SF assets have been improperly employed by those who did not understand the value, usage or the suitability of the SF assets in various ops. Where the SF assets have been used in their appropriate role, they have done amazing things.

A Pakistani Maj Gen (not an SF officer but one who understood the proper concept of employing SF) once wrote the following about the Pakistani SSG:

"The SSG (Special Forces) is the most sophisticated, and specialised, unit in any modern army. The success of their mission is in "The approach to Battle," even more than it is for a common-or-garden infantry unit. The courage, devotion, hardihood and individual training of SSG men is not intended to make amends for failures in planning and projection. These are rather the assets which require extra precision for their employment."

If you use SF as a solution for all challenges facing normal infantry units then you are bound to see failures. Another thing to keep in mind is that most missions tasked to SF units are inherently difficult, thus the ratio of failures to success is also higher. People need to understand this instead of assuming that SF are some invincible band of operators.

 

[blain2]

SSG officer (also Air Assault Qualified from US) discussing Fast-roping techniques with counterparts from Turkish SF during Ataturk series of ex. at Cherat.

Group photo of Pakistani and Turkish SF operators:

Misc. (Turkish and Pakistani SF operators)

Pakistani operators:

Pakistani and Turkish SF operators during training:

Notice the new Army cammies being used by SSG. As I mentioned in another thread, SSG wears what the regular army wears.

 

[Mercenary]

yo blain

can I use these photos and upload them on wikipedia

I mean are they your photos?