Pakistan's National Identity, My thoughts and opinions on Pakistan's problems.

[Mirzali Khan]

I literally said it was not correct to disrespect languages! I asked him to apologise.

Thank you.

But, the vast majority are more mad at me than at him. I think that is definitely concerning.

 

[TNT]

Pashto and Sindhi languages are not practical languages.

Hardly anyone speaks or reads in those languages.

Bro are u serious??? Millions of ppl speak pashto, its thousands of years old language, it carries a rich history. The pashto poetry is deep and fascinating. Its the only language that i think rivals urdu and arabic in being poetic and poetry friendly language. If you could even partially understand rehman baba poetry, ud find it way way above Iqbal, bulleh shah, waris etc.
Having many languages in a country is not bad, infact its beneficial, we can learn mother tongue along with urdu and English and even some arabic. The nation that learns more languages as a requirement of society tends to be smarter.
Call it good or bad but if u cant speak pashto, u r not considered to be a pashtun in pashtun society, even if both ur parents are pashtun. Not only that, u should have pashtun accent of ur area, meaning pashto should be ur mother tongue. Its why pashtuns can identify each other easily through the accent and can identify those who learned it.
As a pashtun, i love urdu as well, its my connection to the rest of Pakistan and i think its extremely important to preserve and encourage urdu. Similarly English is my connection to the rest of the world and equally important. Doesn't mean i abandon pashto or sindhi or any other regional language.

 

[PakSarZameen47]

Bro are u serious??? Millions of ppl speak pashto, its thousands of years old language, it carries a rich history. The pashto poetry is deep and fascinating. Its the only language that i think rivals urdu and arabic in being poetic and poetry friendly language. If you could even partially understand rehman baba poetry, ud find it way way above Iqbal, bulleh shah, waris etc.
Having many languages in a country is not bad, infact its beneficial, we can learn mother tongue along with urdu and English and even some arabic. The nation that learns more languages as a requirement of society tends to be smarter.
Call it good or bad but if u cant speak pashto, u r not considered to be a pashtun in pashtun society, even if both ur parents are pashtun. Not only that, u should have pashtun accent of ur area, meaning pashto should be ur mother tongue. Its why pashtuns can identify each other easily through the accent and can identify those who learned it.
As a pashtun, i love urdu as well, its my connection to the rest of Pakistan and i think its extremely important to preserve and encourage urdu. Similarly English is my connection to the rest of the world and equally important. Doesn't mean i abandon pashto or sindhi or any other regional language.

You are 100% correct brother. Thankyou for this!

We must preserve both regional languages, as well as out national language and English to compete in global world.

There is no debate here.

 

[hussain0216]

Ethnocentrism will inadvertently develop when you have people on this forum calling my language and Sindhi language "useless".

More people are mad at me than at a guy spewing hate speech! Shows the aasliyat of this Pakistani identity!

You already give loyalty to an afghan identity that has burnt and buried the afghans, your failure to defend and stand up for the country has created havoc for decades in your areas

It's time to move on, time to grow, Afghanistan is done and finished, expect it to break apart as everyone has had enough

What we can't do is drag the stupidity into Pakistan



We are utilising hindutva against our enemies inside India to create divisions

The enemy will use ethnocentric jahilat against us and we have to be prepared for these enemies whether Hindu or afghan

 

[kingQamaR]

It’s actually a very bizarre topic I’m looking at makes no sense to me think about it we are trashing our own native language for a foreign import no offence. Brits voted out of eu preserve there identity here we are saying the opposite. some people on here are so sensitive when people speak of their own mother-languages it scares certain peoples to death. Urdu Lang has no monopoly, over us. If it’s strong enough it will survive otherwise it will die and disappear.

 

[PakSarZameen47]

Thank you.

But, the vast majority are more mad at me than at him. I think that is definitely concerning.

I think people feel that they way you're conveying your points are negative agasint Pak. It comes across as if you're trying to attack Pakistan (which I don't think you are) which is why they are mad. Misunderstanding I think

 

[Maula Jatt]

It’s actually a very bizarre topic I’m looking at makes no sense to me think about it we are trashing our own native language for a foreign import no offence. Brits voted out of eu preserve there identity here we are saying the opposite. some people on here are so sensitive when people speak of their own mother-languages it scares certain peoples to death. Urdu Lang has no monopoly, over us. If it’s strong enough it will survive otherwise it will die and disappear.

Like it or not - without Pakistanis blessings it's a dead language

It's us who give it power and respect and it's us who can take it away too

We respect it, we cherish it, we use it
but it ain't bigger than us

 

[PakSarZameen47]

Like it or not - without Pakistanis blessings it's a dead language

It's us who give it power and respect and it's us who can take it away too

We respect it, we chrish it
but it ain't bigger than us

We will always respect and cherish it because we own it now. There's no debate

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Because Pakistani identity itself relies on Islam and Urdu to try to push some sort of comradery among its groups that frankly had nothing to do with each other before British rule. This results in extreme radicalization.

That is not true. Pakistani ethnic groups have been living alongside each other for over a millennia. The geographic, economic, political, historic and genetic interconnection between Pakistani ethnic groups did not poof into existence with British rule but has always resided here. Once you study the history and anthropology of this land, you'll realize that we are far closer to each other than we realize.

Though I do agree, instead of centering our national identity around our native culture(s), heritage and other indigenous elements, we have adopted a "Indian Muslim" national identity and in the footsteps of the British before us, have been using this foreign identity to homogenize the entire nation. This will only lead to further escalation of ethno-nationalism.

you'll struggle to find one except for Europe (in the end they themselves are moving towards the powerful EU)

European nations such as France and England were actually very ethno-culturally and linguistically diverse. Beginning in the late 1700's, West European nations began to undergo a rapid process of homogenization leading to the ethnocultural makeup that we are familiar with today.

Well to me its the opposite. Pakistan is a chapter in all group's history, the groups aren't a chapter in Pakistan's history.

That would apply to Pakistan as a political entity and any other nation as well. However, as the embodiment of geographic unity, that is not true. Ethnic groups develop, converge, dissolve, etc... they are dynamic. Couple centuries ago, there was no concept of a "Punjabi ethnicity", today it is the largest ethnic group in Pakistan. How people decide to call themselves or define their cultures will always change, however, the land will always remain. We are the ones that are the mere chapters in the history of this land, never the other way around.

 

[Kağan Zafer]

This is the reality of a Pakistani identity, an erasure of local and native languages and cultures!!

Very interesting point, though, you shouldn't single out the Pakistani state. There are many ethnic, religious and linguistic sub-identities that states like Germany, France, Turkey, China, Italy or even Sweden have physically and socially erased over time to forge a somewhat homogeneous and functioning nation out of a demographic "mess".

In fact, Pakistan is incredibly tolerant and lenient when it comes to local identities. One might say even too lenient and tolerant at times...which some people use as a faulty excuse to point out the 'artificial' character of Pakistan.

The truth is that every single nationstate is artificial. The whole concept is, historically speaking, brandnew and most states came to being just yesterday, even those in Western Europe.

Your criticism seems a little backhanded because you are criticzing the very existence of a Pakistani identity and not what it should or should not contain.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Bro are u serious???

Kinda shows what this "pak identity" is sort of about.

Millions of ppl speak pashto, its thousands of years old language, it carries a rich history. The pashto poetry is deep and fascinating. Its the only language that i think rivals urdu and arabic in being poetic and poetry friendly language. If you could even partially understand rehman baba poetry, ud find it way way above Iqbal, bulleh shah, waris etc.

And EVERY LANGUAGE IS BEAUTIFUL!!!! You can cherish one without thrashing another!

Having many languages in a country is not bad, infact its beneficial, we can learn mother tongue along with urdu and English and even some arabic. The nation that learns more languages as a requirement of society tends to be smarter.

India has multiple regional languages and some Indians can speak upwards of up to 4-5 lamgauges.

Call it good or bad but if u cant speak pashto, u r not considered to be a pashtun in pashtun society, even if both ur parents are pashtun. Not only that, u should have pashtun accent of ur area, meaning pashto should be ur mother tongue. Its why pashtuns can identify each other easily through the accent and can identify those who learned it.

Yup! The Waziri and Afridi dialects are different than southern and Yousafzai Pashto. That's the beauty of it.

As a pashtun, i love urdu as well, its my connection to the rest of Pakistan and i think its extremely important to preserve and encourage urdu. Similarly English is my connection to the rest of the world and equally important. Doesn't mean i abandon pashto or sindhi or any other regional language.

Yea we should all learn basic phrases of each language. It can go a long way!

You already give loyalty to an afghan identity that has burnt and buried the afghans, your failure to defend and stand up for the country has created havoc for decades in your areas

It's time to move on, time to grow, Afghanistan is done and finished, expect it to break apart as everyone has had enough

What we can't do is drag the stupidity into Pakistan



We are utilising hindutva against our enemies inside India to create divisions

The enemy will use ethnocentric jahilat against us and we have to be prepared for these enemies whether Hindu or afghan

This is an example of racism! Where did I ever say I want to join Afghanistan?!

Members of this forum should condemn this behavior!

It’s actually a very bizarre topic I’m looking at makes no sense to me think about it we are trashing our own native language for a foreign import no offence. Brits voted out of eu preserve there identity here we are saying the opposite. some people on here are so sensitive when people speak of their own mother-languages it scares certain peoples to death. Urdu Lang has no monopoly, over us. If it’s strong enough it will survive otherwise it will die and disappear.

And this thread proved exactly what you said. Why are people so scared of us wanting to cherish our local and native languages

I think people feel that they way you're conveying your points are negative agasint Pak. It comes across as if you're trying to attack Pakistan (which I don't think you are) which is why they are mad. Misunderstanding I think

So insulting 2 languages is lesser offense in this forum's eyes?

Once you study the history and anthropology of this land, you'll realize that we are far closer to each other than we realize.

Then why are all our cultures so diverse and languages so different from each other?

 

[PakSarZameen47]

Kinda shows what this "pak identity" is sort of about.


And EVERY LANGUAGE IS BEAUTIFUL!!!! You can cherish one without thrashing another!


India has multiple regional languages and some Indians can speak upwards of up to 4-5 lamgauges.


Yup! The Waziri and Afridi dialects are different than southern and Yousafzai Pashto. That's the beauty of it.


Yea we should all learn basic phrases of each language. It can go a long way!



This is an example of racism! Where did I ever say I want to join Afghanistan?!

Members of this forum should condemn this behavior!



And this thread proved exactly what you said. Why are people so scared of us wanting to cherish our local and native languages



So insulting 2 languages is lesser offense in this forum's eyes?

There's only 5 people on this thread , it doesn't represent the whole forum.

Let's all stop arguing and insulting each other. It is not fitting with this forum.

This topic has been stretched way further than it needs to go. Completely unnecessary.

I know IK's removal has been difficult. I've said a little patience and things will be right on track. In mean time we should not start fighting ourselves. We are I a vulnerable state, India is planning to test waters soon. We have bigger serious issues to be dealing with soon.

I'm not going to comment in this topic again.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Though I do agree, instead of centering our national identity around our native culture(s), heritage and other indigenous elements, we have adopted a "Indian Muslim" national identity and in the footsteps of the British before us, have been using this foreign identity to homogenize the entire nation. This will only lead to further escalation of ethno-nationalism.

Because some people genuinely believe that Pakistan is a successor state to Mughal Empire

Couple centuries ago, there was no concept of a "Punjabi ethnicity", today it is the largest ethnic group in Pakistan. How people decide to call themselves or define their cultures will always change, however, the land will always remain. We are the ones that are the mere chapters in the history of this land, never the other way around.

This land has always existed but Pakistan in itself is new.

Let's all stop arguing and insulting each other.

Don't do "both sides" I never insulted anyone's language or heritage!!

Pakistani nationalism needs to be combined with ethnic nationalism, no matter how hard you try, there is no denying the incredibly polar society in terms of conservatism, phenotypical looks (ethnicity), and culture which exists in each region.

The solution is not to force everyone under a single identity and disregard a massive part of who they are, it's to combine them together so people can feel proud for both. Otherwise it causes people to lash out with ethno-nationalist movements (sometimes armed).

More provincial autonomy and cultural + linguistic preservation which can be mixed together with the idea of Pakistan.

People should be proud to call themselves a Pashtun from Pakistan, a Punjabi from Pakistan, a Sindhi from Pakistan, etc etc.

This is the only compromise otherwise your world will come crashing down trying to force everyone under a single blanket term like Pakistani.

@jus_chillin What do you think?

Yup fully agree

 

[kingQamaR]

We will always respect and cherish it because we own it now. There's no debate

It goes both ways mate.

If the rest of us respect Urdu they can do same for ours or they can get lost

 

[PakSarZameen47]

Because some people genuinely believe that Pakistan is a successor state to Mughal Empire



This land has always existed but Pakistan in itself is new.



Don't do "both sides" I never insulted anyone's language or heritage!!



Yup fully agree, everyone respect each other

I'm not both siding, I never asked you to apologise to anyone

It goes both ways mate.

If the rest of us respect Urdu they can do same for ours or they can get lost

Yes I agree, everyone to respect each other