Pakistan's JF 17 fighter Jets pose serious threat to Indian Air Force entire Mig fleet: Intl. expert

[aftab_s81]

patience is a virtue little child...learn you wait.

I take it as a bluff. One should not be so blind in patriotism that deny daylight. Only design and sub systems selection is complete. It's not built and certainly not flying.

 

[denel]

The expert is right that the yet to be developed JF17 Block3 with its AESA and newer missiles will be a threat to Mig21 and Mig27.
Mig29 UPG is debatable.

This is where the big question is been asking if we have a comparative real time exercise PG vs JF-17. If so please share. MiG-27 is relegated to ground attack so that comparison is not right. The same can be said Su's pose a threat to Mirages for equivalent missions.

 

[KapitaanAli]

This is where the big question is been asking if we have a comparative real time exercise PG vs JF-17. If so please share. MiG-27 is relegated to ground attack so that comparison is not right. The same can be said Su's pose a threat to Mirages for equivalent missions.

Yeah, just bringing that up since we're talking about the MiG fleet.

F7 PG isn't BVR capable though. Indian Bisons are. But PG is probably better at WVR. So I don't think JF17 vs PG will give us much info.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

F7 PG isn't BVR capable though. Indian Bisons are. But PG is probably better at WVR.

No they are not.

One of the first things that we noticed are the external features that differentiate the Bison from the Bis. The earlier Bis had a very restrictive view in terms of the Cockpit. The older fixed windshield has been replaced with a new ‘frame less’ Windshield . The older side opening Canopy with a prominent rear view mirror arrangement in the middle of the Perspex has been replaced with a clear bubble canopy which had semicircle rear view mirrors fitted to the rim, offering a much better view. The Conformal ECM Dispensing Systems, which are installed over the wingroot, are another distinguishing feature. Last is the RWR Antennae that have been put on the vertical fin. Something that we never got to see, but is another significant upgrade to the aircraft is the new Helmet Mounted Sighting System, which enables the pilot to launch an Air to Air Missile at off bore angles, simply by turning his head towards the target.

 

[KapitaanAli]

No they are not.

It's debatable, I think. Bison is certainly more advanced, but PG has better manoeuvrability. The PG pilot will do his best to stay outside the HMSS angle.

But Bison is so beautiful..

 

[denel]

Yeah, just bringing that up since we're talking about the MiG fleet.

F7 PG isn't BVR capable though. Indian Bisons are. But PG is probably better at WVR. So I don't think JF17 vs PG will give us much info.

PG/NG in terms of radar is similar; what stands out on Bison is HMS if that is correct; other than that both are equally matched

 

[denel]

It's debatable, I think. Bison is certainly more advanced, but PG has better manoeuvrability. The PG pilot will do his best to stay outside the HMSS angle.

But Bison is so beautiful..
View attachment 473263

Yes, Mig-21 Bis is definitely more a beauty. However if the double deltas were ever to be mated; amazing performance then. Ah well ... good to dream.

 

[Windjammer]

Yeah, just bringing that up since we're talking about the MiG fleet.

F7 PG isn't BVR capable though. Indian Bisons are. But PG is probably better at WVR. So I don't think JF17 vs PG will give us much info.

Wrong, the PG was technically the first type in PAF to have BVR capability.

 

[denel]

Wrong, the PG was technically the first type in PAF to have BVR capability.

Yes Grifo radar allows that capability which is why i was surprised to read otherwise.

 

[araz]

the "yet to be developed" is already flying and going through testing...

Shah jee!
Yara gup thori kam lagaya Karo. Not a couple of months ago the Ex ACM said the design parameters for Bl.3 have been confirmed. Now you are telling me a prototype is flying. Naa yaar, I dont accept that.
A

 

[MastanKhan]

the "yet to be developed" is already flying and going through testing...

Hi,

That could be possible---. If the aircraft is a year away from production---then a flying model can be a reality---.

Why has it not been displayed in public---. There is basically no need to show it off---because once it becomes visible---its abilities also become visible---.

 

[Signalian]

The most brutal tool that this aircraft has the ability to launch 4---6 BVR missiles at a single target in a volley---a feat no other aircraft in the industry can accomplish---.

That's true however if BVR AAM's of JF-17 also pierce SU 30 MKI's skin and bring it down, that will mark a serious dent on invincibility myth of MKI. With close proximity of bases(and FOB's) of both air forces, the chances of air combat at a stone's throw away is highly probable. This will invite tactics from both sides, JF-17's encouraging WVR combat and enacting tactics to get as close as possible to MKI where as the MKI preferring the volley of 4-6 BVR's to ensure a high percentage kill probability from a distance.

The JF-17 solves the attrition-war worries for the PAF, if the war progresses towards that direction. The chances of downed F-16's replacement are next to nil, especially during war and even with great difficulty after the war. Same goes for the ROSE Mirages. Its the F-7 and JF-17 which can fill in the numbers for downed aircrafts of same types during the war.

One major question is of the embargo of RD-93 by Russia in case of a Pak-India war. The Chinese mediation and the contract paper work should ensure that embargo of spares or engine or engine parts doesn't take place.

And yet the Mig 21s of the IAF surprised the Americans. JF-17 is a MiG 21 fighter class fighter. All this talk of multi role is useless unless you establish complete dominance and switch roles of the fighter.
Truth is Pakistan has added new aircraft in JF 17s but you cannot expect it to do everything. The harder truth is, it never needed the numbers of JF 17s it has produced. It needed a different class of fighters that were even a class above F-16s or at the bare minimum more of F-16s.
LCA, JF17 are all MIG 21s of today without the reputation of MIG21. In short, the more responsibilities one adds on these restricted aircrafts, the lesser capabilities is what one will achieve.

JF-17 getting downed by an IAF aircraft is expected and possible in air combat, whether its Rafle or MKI or Mig-29 or Mirage-2000 or LCA or Mig-21 etc.

The interesting factor is any or one of each types of IAF aircraft getting downed by JF-17, gives a good milestone to JF-17 even if its own air-combat record is not top-notch. JF-17 downing Rafale, MKI, Mig-29, Mirage 2000, LCA, Mig-21 etc, even if one of each of these types, shows JF-17 as an aircraft capable of taking on multiple adversary platforms in war and puts different types of aircraft kills under its belt.

 

[KapitaanAli]

Wrong, the PG was technically the first type in PAF to have BVR capability.

Which BVR missile is integrated to PG?

Yes Grifo radar allows that capability which is why i was surprised to read otherwise.

Highly questionable. You won't find any instance where it carries a BVR missile.

Even assuming that it has upgraded its Grifo, keep in mind that the nose cone is smaller than that of Bis/Bisons.

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Reality check for IAF. And for fanboys of JF-17 , don't make it a mini god please.
What is JF-17 , A light to medium Modern next gen Bird with excellent capabilities .
JF-17 is great against what birds , All of Migs , Jags , and even upgraded M2Ks ,,, It also can face(better to avoid) Su-30 and Rafal.
What will JF-17 bring to PAF , Replacement of old 100s of birds , birds like A-5 , F-6 , F-7 . Cost effective , advance , home-grown , and good in numbers replacement .
What our enemy think of this , lol they are not happy . And they will cry if PAF chose same path to replace Mirages with J-10 or any other new bird.

@MastanKhan , sir g some of your post are great to read , As you and I always said this bird is blessing for Pakistan , now we have a light category bird , I hope and Pray soon we replace our Mirages with J-10(Pakistani version) to have medium category bird .
And on F-16 , well truth is , no bird out there that can replace F-16 , yes 5th gen can but PAF is still 10+ years away from them(that to if PAF buy J-31)

 

[The Accountant]

Reality check for IAF. And for fanboys of JF-17 , don't make it a mini god please.
What is JF-17 , A light to medium Modern next gen Bird with excellent capabilities .
JF-17 is great against what birds , All of Migs , Jags , and even upgraded M2Ks ,,, It also can face(better to avoid) Su-30 and Rafal.
What will JF-17 bring to PAF , Replacement of old 100s of birds , birds like A-5 , F-6 , F-7 . Cost effective , advance , home-grown , and good in numbers replacement .
What our enemy think of this , lol they are not happy . And they will cry if PAF chose same path to replace Mirages with J-10 or any other new bird.

@MastanKhan , sir g some of your post are great to read , As you and I always said this bird is blessing for Pakistan , now we have a light category bird , I hope and Pray soon we replace our Mirages with J-10(Pakistani version) to have medium category bird .
And on F-16 , well truth is , no bird out there that can replace F-16 , yes 5th gen can but PAF is still 10+ years away from them(that to if PAF buy J-31)

Mirrages are going to replace by F16s ... Pakistan will be going for top level fighter after thunder ...