Pakistan Urges Afghanistan to Ally With Islamabad

[Urbanized Greyhound]

words by themselves would mean little unless followed up with action on the ground, ISI still using its contacts to aid Afghan anti -govt forces is hardly going to convince them of Pakistan's good intentions..

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

again, another idiot.

the mujhadeen was conceptualised in america.

pakistan were its facilitators because they were in a unique historical situation of being stuck in a tussle between two super powers, they had to go one way or the other (note india went the other way).


the mujhadeen were initially god fearing freedom loving people, then they became terrorists.


unfortunately once the mujhadeen had been created they cannot be reversed over night, the damage was done from the 70's.

the only possibly solution to the mujhadeen was the creation of the taliban as a means to an end.

please note american showed no commitment to helping the afghans after the soviet war.

so what was pakistan to do? try and create a liberal democracy - thats what the americans are meant to be good at.

So is excusing yourselves as only facilitators enough to mitigate what you facilitated ? Fact remains , Afghans still had to suffer .

 

[NaqsheYaar]

^ Before Pakistan got it's independence, Afghanistan was there, in okay state, independent from any other state. So claiming we are dependent on Pakistan is a very silly statement. Both Pakistanis and Afghans know that politically we have never been friends, and even hopes for that is from very little to zero. This is a fact none can deny and as sure Pakistanis are of Afghan government being an Pak enemy, same-wise Afghans are certain Pak government is enemy of Afghanistan. Another fact non side can deny.

Yes, if you are talking on a PERSONAL level, then I have never seen intense hatred from either side towards either side! Back in the days (before the wars started) many of my father's classmates in Nangarhar were Pak Pashtuns, Jalalabad even back then suggested to give Pak Pashtuns permanent visa for Afghanistan. Same-wise I had great time in Pakhtunkhwa and not for even ONE DAY did I feel like an outsider or an immigrant, I very well remember how Afghan Pashtuns were reassured that Pakhtunkhwa is as much our home as is Afghanistan. No Afghan has forgotten which people were there at our times of need, and these e-Afghans are no example!

BUT, I remain with my point that politically if Afghan government has wished bad for Pakistan, then so has Pak government for Afghanistan. Simple. And that's the reason, why I keep saying if both countries want to enjoy even a little positive relationships, we should learn to separate politics from humanity.

Well I am not a history student, but I know this much that this political hatred only started during the British Rule over India. While Afghanistan was under Russia's influence at that time. Please remember that historically Muslims of Pakistan never hated Afghanis, may be natives of present-day India hated you for those frequent attacks before British colonisation. I am a Pushtun and am proud to be one. but I am more proud to be a Muslim then being an Afghani...

 

[r3alist]

So is excusing yourselves as only facilitators enough to mitigate what you facilitated ? Fact remains , Afghans still had to suffer .

mitigation of being facilitators because pakistan had the obvious threat of a soviet unvion aligned with indian invasion themselves.

mitigation of being facilitators because pakistan were on the "right side" by being against the soviets.

to say that pakistan and the ISI gave birth to the taliban is a monstrous fallacy, it was western strategists who did this, and they no longer want to take credit for it.

the afghans primarily had to suffer first because russian bombs were killing them, then because the americans (with isi help) radicalized/weaponised their primitive population, then finally by dropping bombs on them again, these actions is what has killed afghans.

pakistan had the unenviable situation of being the neighbours and therefore trying to manage the mess alone somehow, its never going to be perfect, there is no easy solution.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

mitigation of being facilitators because pakistan had the obvious threat of a soviet unvion aligned with indian invasion themselves.

mitigation of being facilitators because pakistan were on the "right side" by being against the soviets.

.

Okay here comes the reality check :

on the "right side " according to whose definition , America's ????

So U.S.S.R was in the wrong , so was China having annexed Tibet and several other countries - Vietnam for instance , wrong or right ?

Besides both Saudi Arabia and the Pallavi dynasty of Iran were literally U.S colonies , U.S had military bases in S.Arabia , Iran 's foreign policy was dictated by it too .

to say that pakistan and the ISI gave birth to the taliban is a monstrous fallacy, it was western strategists who did this, and they no longer want to take credit for it.

That is historical fact , no one is saying otherwise.But you still had the final say , why did you not veto it ?

The indian invasion is just an excuse , India had never initiated a conflict with pakistan then or even now , so it was the paranoia of your strategic planners and military generals to blame here.

the afghans primarily had to suffer first because russian bombs were killing them, then because the americans (with isi help) radicalized/weaponised their primitive population, then finally by dropping bombs on them again, these actions is what has killed afghans.

Yes so Pakistan's ISI was involved. and it does not matter under American pressure or not .The fact remains they were actively involved in Mujahid training.The creation of the insurgency

pakistan had the unenviable situation of being the neighbours and therefore trying to manage the mess alone somehow, its never going to be perfect, there is no easy solution

You could have chosen the India route - remained neutral but you chose to ally yourself with the west - SEATO , Bagdad pact .

here lies the crux of the matter , You were under no compulsions to become the U.S 's global vanguard in the fight against international communism but you chose to involve yourselves willingly. You could have been a pro- U.S country and still received benefits but you took up an unnecessary fight. Did India have to aid the soviets in any of their conflicts ? Yet we were allies ....but you chose a different path and Afghans suffered , hence the resentment .

 

[jamal18]

I bet US will not leave Afganistan for anothe 7 or 8 years...until that Afgans will have armed forces to face any kind of tailban threats...

No matter how large and well equipped they are, once Nato leave the 'glue' that binds them together will fail, they will fall apart into various ethnic, tribal and religious factions.