Pakistan tops the list of countries in newborn mortality

[Cobra Arbok]

This needs to be looked at and measures should be taken to decrease our infant mortality rates FAST.

For a long time, Pakistan has neglected this issue.

What are some of the possible reasons for Pakistan's high infant mortality rates? Poverty alone can't explain it because sub-saharan African countries and india are significantly more poorer than us with much higher poverty rates. So what gives? Even within india, hindus have higher infant mortality rates than Muslims but Muslims are poorer than Hindus.

So what are some of the factors that cause high mortality rates other than poverty??

Anyone?

What are you talkin about? India has a higher gdp per capita both nominal and ppp, and ranks 20 spots higher on HDI and MPI, which measures development. These numbers show that standard of living in India is better than in Pakistan.

And where did you find out that in India Hindus have higher infant mortality? Genuinely curious, haven't heard that before.

 

[MultaniGuy]

What are you talkin about? India has a higher gdp per capita both nominal and ppp, and ranks 20 spots higher on HDI and MPI, which measures development. These numbers show that standard of living in India is better than in Pakistan.

And where did you find out that in India Hindus have higher infant mortality? Genuinely curious, haven't heard that before.

GDP per capita is only better in India because of filthy rich billionaires like Ambani. And India has more dirt poor Indians.

Otherwise Income inequality is much worse in India than in Pakistan.

And Indian GDP per capita is not much better than Pakistan's.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

GDP per capita is only better in India because of filthy rich billionaires like Ambani. And India has more dirt poor Indians.

Otherwise Income inequality is much worse in India than in Pakistan.

And Indian GDP per capita is not much better than Pakistan's.

You have a good point, but you cannot deny India does much better on HDI and MPI. While I agree India is not much better, you cannot say there is far less poverty in Pakistan

but that is off topic.

 

[MultaniGuy]

You have a good point, but you cannot deny India does much better on HDI and MPI. While I agree India is not much better, you cannot say there is far less poverty in Pakistan

but that is off topic.

India does significantly better in GDP Nominal. That I will give you.
I must be brutally honest. Yes also in HDI.

We Pakistanis want peace with Republic of India.
Always remember that, and we think the same of Indians who want peace with Pakistan.

We do not want to remain enemies forever.

 

[AUz]

What are you talkin about? India has a higher gdp per capita both nominal and ppp, and ranks 20 spots higher on HDI and MPI, which measures development. These numbers show that standard of living in India is better than in Pakistan.

We have gone over it multiple times. So don't want to waste time again.

In general, GDP per capita doesn't measure prosperity on its own. GDP just measures production. There are many other metrics that need to be looked into to get a better picture. (On a side note: Pakistan's GDP calculations are still based on early 2000's as "base" year, while indian one's are based on 2010---hence far more updated. Updating Pakistan's base year to 2010 to portray actual levels of production in the economy will minimize, if not downright diminish, any differences you see in per capita GDP numbers)

Secondly, "average" is a very inaccurate indicator of common man's prosperity. A very small prosperous elite on the top can skew the "average" for entire population even though the general population might be doing extremely bad. What needs to be looked at is "median" income/wealth per capita, not "average" per capita.

When we look at median per capita income, median per capita wealth, education, health, poverty rates (multidimensional poverty rates) etc etc....Few things become clear

India on average does better in education and most health metrics (Literacy rates, infant mortality, HDI)

Pakistan does better on prosperity metrics (less poverty, higher median incomes/wealth levels, better per capita food/nutrition consumption, much higher electrification rates etc etc)

Overall, both countries are developing countries and needs a long way to go in terms of prosperity and standard of living. So there's no point is debating this point to death anyways.

Won't respond on this topic anymore. Lets move to the topic of the thread

And where did you find out that in India Hindus have higher infant mortality? Genuinely curious, haven't heard that before.

Indian Muslims have lower infant mortality rates than Indian Hindus. It has been a very well known fact in academics.

https://iussp2009.princeton.edu/papers/92861

There are even more latest papers confirming it, but you get the point.

 

[MultaniGuy]

We have gone over it multiple times. So don't want to waste time again.

In general, GDP per capita doesn't measure prosperity on its own. GDP just measures production. There are many other metrics that need to be looked into to get a better picture. (On a side note: Pakistan's GDP calculations are still based on early 2000's as "base" year, while indian one's are based on 2010---hence far more updated. Updating Pakistan's base year to 2010 to portray actual levels of production in the economy will minimize, if not downright diminish, any differences you see in per capita GDP numbers)

Secondly, "average" is a very inaccurate indicator of common man's prosperity. A very small prosperous elite on the top can skew the "average" for entire population even though the general population might be doing extremely bad. What needs to be looked at is "median" income/wealth per capita, not "average" per capita.

When we look at median per capita income, median per capita wealth, education, health, poverty rates (multidimensional poverty rates) etc etc....Few things become clear

India on average does better in education and most health metrics (Literacy rates, infant mortality, HDI)

Pakistan does better on prosperity metrics (less poverty, higher median incomes/wealth levels, better per capita food/nutrition consumption, much higher electrification rates etc etc)

Overall, both countries are developing countries and needs a long way to go in terms of prosperity and standard of living. So there's no point is debating this point to death anyways.

Won't respond on this topic anymore. Lets move to the topic of the thread



Indian Muslims have lower infant mortality rates than Indian Hindus. It has been a very well known fact in academics.

https://iussp2009.princeton.edu/papers/92861

There are even more latest papers confirming it, but you get the point.

The only thing India does better is GDP Nominal and that is because it has 1.3 billion people.

 

[AUz]

The only thing India does better is GDP Nominal and that is because it has 1.3 billion people.

I don't think he was talking about GDP overall but per capita.

india might as well have a bit higher GDP per capita as of now but we don't know that because indian metrics are far more updated than ours. We do a very bad job of actually capturing the true state of production in the country.

Our statistics and reporting paradigm sucks compared to india's (let alone other countries like Turkey, Iran etc).

Forget everything, we don't even have full report of census available as of yet, and that was the census which was late by almost a whole decade

Hopefully Asad Umar and Hammad Azhar bring out reporting infrastructure to modern standards. Its very important for tax collection as well. Our 'saiths' significantly underreport their actual sales/production to get away with taxes.

 

[MultaniGuy]

I don't think he was talking about GDP overall but per capita.

india might as well have a bit higher GDP per capita as of now but we don't know that because indian metrics are far more updated than ours. We do a very bad job of actually capturing the true state of production in the country.

Our statistics and reporting paradigm sucks compared to india's (let alone other countries like Turkey, Iran etc).

Forget everything, we don't even have full report of census available as of yet, and that was the census which was late by almost a whole decade

Hopefully Asad Umar and Hammad Azhar bring out reporting infrastructure to modern standards. Its very important for tax collection as well. Our 'saiths' significantly underreport their actual sales/production to get away with taxes.

I meant GDP Nominal and not Per Capita. India is only ahead in per capita by a little.

While India is ahead in GDP Nominal because of 1.3 billion people.

Enough said.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

I meant GDP Nominal and not Per Capita. India is only ahead in per capita by a little.

While India is ahead in GDP Nominal because of 1.3 billion people.

Enough said.

The difference is greater when adjusted for purchasing parity, which is most often used to determine standard of living metrics.

 

[MultaniGuy]

The difference is greater when adjusted for purchasing parity, which is most often used to determine standard of living metrics.

Most people and social scientists do not care about GDP PPP.

It is GDP Nominal that truly matters.

Regards.

 

[ziaulislam]

GDP per capita is only better in India because of filthy rich billionaires like Ambani. And India has more dirt poor Indians.

Otherwise Income inequality is much worse in India than in Pakistan.

And Indian GDP per capita is not much better than Pakistan's.

even adjusted for gini index, GDP is slightly better than pakistan..
we are forgetting that in last 10 years when we were going downhill india has shown a decent growth..same is true for bangladesh

Most people and social scientists do not care about GDP PPP.

It is GDP Nominal that truly matters.

Regards.

i thought it was the opposite!

 

[MultaniGuy]

even adjusted for gini index, GDP is slightly better than pakistan..
we are forgetting that in last 10 years when we were going downhill india has shown a decent growth..same is true for bangladesh


i thought it was the opposite!

Read this: I meant judging total Economic performance.

GDP (Gross Domestic Product) is the total market value of all final goods and services produced in a country in a given period. Each country reports its data in its own currency. To compare the data, each country's statistics must be converted into a common currency. The two most common methods to convert GDP into a common currency are nominal and purchasing power parity (PPP).

Nominal GDP estimates are commonly used to determine the economic performance of a whole country or region, and to make international comparisons. It is the original concept of GDP. In Nominal method, market exchange rates are used for conversion. It does not take into account differences in the cost of living in different countries. Fluctuations in the exchange rates of the country's currency may change a country's ranking from one year to the next, even though they often make little or no difference to the standard of living of its population.

PPP basis arguably more useful when comparing differences in living standards between nations. A haircut in New York is more expensive than in Lima; the price of a taxi ride of the same distance is higher in Paris than in Tunis; and a ticket to a cricket game costs more in London than in Lahore. PPP is an exchange rate at which the currency of one country is converted into that of the second country in order to purchase the same volume of goods and services in both countries. If a hamburger is selling in London for £2 and in New York for $4, this would imply a PPP exchange rate of 1 pound to 2 U.S. dollars. PPP exchange rates are relatively stable over time. Drawbacks of PPP is that PPP is harder to measure than nominal.

Out of 192 countries/economies, 178 have higher GDP in PPP basis and 13 have higher in nominal. For United States both are identical. 30 economies has higher ppp values by more than 3 times.

South Sudan has highest difference between PPP and nominal gdp calculation. GDP (PPP) of South Sudan is 6.53 times larger than GDP (nominal). South Sudan is followed by Egypt (5.1), Myanmar (4.9), Uzbekistan (4.6) and Azerbaijan (4.2). This value is lowest for Iceland (0.74).

There is a large gap between nominal and PPP based GDP in emerging market and developing countries. But for advanced countries, difference is much closer. Out of 16 economies which has ppp to nominal ratio is less than one (i.e, ppp value is less than nominal), 6 are among 12 richest and 9 are among 22 richest economies in nominal basis.

http://statisticstimes.com/economy/gdp-nominal-vs-gdp-ppp.php

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Most people and social scientists do not care about GDP PPP.

It is GDP Nominal that truly matters.

Regards.

In macroeconomics, you are correct, PPP is rarely used. however we are talking about developmental economics. The GDP PPP is used in developmental economics because it is adjusted for cost of living, so it provides a more accurate measure of the standards of living within a country @Nilgiri

 

[Nilgiri]

Most people and social scientists do not care about GDP PPP.

Actually a great Pakistani economist* was instrumental in the foundation of the ICP (which is the process that gathers data for PPP calculation)....given he was the visionary that created the Human Development Index (the most well known socioeconomic measurement in the world) in the first place. HDI uses PPP...its not a coincidence but actually a very well laid out series of papers on developmental economics from roughly the 70s onwards (when the limits of western + mercantile economic theory were found wanting when applied to developing countries for measuring their progress etc).

*Here is more on this very intelligent person:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahbub_ul_Haq

I have posted on him before:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...se-of-bangladesh.593092/page-15#post-11060235

Also its worth noting that using USD as direct exchange rate itself opens up relevant use of PPP for international comparison (as USD nominal is itself an international comparison in the end just like PPP)....given only the US (and not every country in the world) prints the US Dollar....and thus using it via exchange rate (of the currency you print and only trade some small amount of that worldwide compared to your local economy) is not really accurate thing to do....and can thus be improved upon by concepts like PPP.

@Joe Shearer @That Guy @Indus Pakistan @Major Sam @farhan_9909

 

[Yaseen1]

it is important for population control otherwise our population would have increased many fold so it is good for us