'Pakistan should take Kashmir issue to int'l court'

[nahtanbob]

Might is right. Unless Pakistan becomes Asian Tiger overnight with an impressive modern Army, ready to unleash hell, no international forum will take Pakistan’s requests serious.

So either develop secret capability to neutralize Indian numerically advantage in war and wage war or wait till this so called Asian Tiger dream come to life.

if you become an Asian Tiger like South Korea or Taiwan you are not going to war

 

[Thamizh Puli]

might may be right but right is always right. If you mistake a right that is rightfully right as might so right, you are fooling yourself

 

[Flash_Ninja]

Internationalization takes nothing in this age of free websites, free emails and amazon turks. I can internationalize you in 30 days for less than 5K. And every corner of the world you can find some nut to hold a banner for you for 5 bucks or a smoke. If that's what you wanted, yeahhh you succeeded.

Thought you were serious

Gangu definitions of internationalising might include free emails, and paying someone to hold a banner; but in the rest of the world the defintion is related to diplomacy and how states percieve issues.

 

[Thamizh Puli]

Gangu definitions of internationalising might include free emails, and paying someone to hold a banner; but in the rest of the world the defintion is related to diplomacy and how states percieve issues.

whats a Gangu definition?

yeah, that's the point I am making too. Just getting people abroad in some fora talk about an issue is not suffcient. how you are able to actually influence their thinking and convert to some actionable channels is where talent comes in. To be blunt Pakistan has not had any in that department except perhaps Imran Khan but he seems more interested in individual credits and goes into a sulk every time the other girl in the class gets a better date (metaphor, not calling them girls). Musharraf had a lot more of that talent but he had other baggage such as legitimacy.
In all cases, no Pakistani has been able to come up with any argument that doesn't get quashed with a relative merits counter by India.

 

[Vortex]

whats a Gangu definition?

yeah, that's the point I am making too. Just getting people abroad in some fora talk about an issue is not suffcient. how you are able to actually influence their thinking and convert to some actionable channels is where talent comes in. To be blunt Pakistan has not had any in that department except perhaps Imran Khan but he seems more interested in individual credits and goes into a sulk every time the other girl in the class gets a better date (metaphor, not calling them girls). Musharraf had a lot more of that talent but he had other baggage such as legitimacy.
In all cases, no Pakistani has been able to come up with any argument that doesn't get quashed with a relative merits counter by India.

Unfortunately world is running on only self interest argument(s).

And western world need India against China. That’s all. Pakistan know it, India know it.

What we should do is engage civil societies in western countries, only them could force their governments to force India to give freedom to Kashmiris.

I would advice my Kashmiris Brothers and Sisters to avoid to follow Palestinians’ path. Indians are advised by Israelis and unfortunately Friends of Israel have tight control over media and politics.

To get world support, we should understand their mindset, we should understand their languages, we should analyse their psychology and then devise a plan according all the parameters such studies will allow us to discover.

For an example with France. There is day when in every town they remember their Resistents who gave their live for the country. Use this day to start a media campaign about others resistance mouvements like in Kashmir. Start to link their resistance movement with Kashmiris Resistance movement. Don’t talk about Jihad but about Resistance. It will took time but then slowly France will have to make her position clear. Either french Resistance was a terrorist movement or freedom fighter movement. And of course by the same it will have no other option than to take same position about Kashmiris movement.

But of course they are afraid about word Jihad. They don’t know that french Resistance was a Jihad.

A legitime authority (General De Gaulle) called people to fight against occupation forces.


Pentagon is doing such thing : profiling people, politicians, civilians mindset etc for every country... why ? And what purpose do think serves Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Apple, and others small and unknown companies ? To win war without firing a single bullet, or even if needed to fire one, to fire a single one where it is the most useful.

 

[Flash_Ninja]

whats a Gangu definition?

yeah, that's the point I am making too. Just getting people abroad in some fora talk about an issue is not suffcient. how you are able to actually influence their thinking and convert to some actionable channels is where talent comes in. To be blunt Pakistan has not had any in that department except perhaps Imran Khan but he seems more interested in individual credits and goes into a sulk every time the other girl in the class gets a better date (metaphor, not calling them girls). Musharraf had a lot more of that talent but he had other baggage such as legitimacy.
In all cases, no Pakistani has been able to come up with any argument that doesn't get quashed with a relative merits counter by India.

A gangu definition is a defintion that only a gangu would percieve as being the truth.

Lets look at the facts, 2 years ago no nation was willing to talk about or acknowledge Kashmir. Since then the US and other global powers have offered to directly intervene through mediation, which directly contradicts Indias position of Kashmir being an internal issue. Pakistan has also managed to convince friendly nations such as Turkey, Malaysia, and a few others to publicly speak about Kashmir at international summits. Finally the narrative of Kashmir is being built up through the ranks of lawmakers in Western countries, including key figures like Lindsay Graham who has the ear of Trump.

You see a gangu would look at that and say something idiotic like emailing and hiring protestors would attain that same level of success, but a rational person would see that as nothing but the result of hard fought diplomacy and willpower especially considering the terrrible circumstances Pakistan finds itself in.

 

[Krptonite]

A gangu definition is a defintion that only a gangu would percieve as being the truth.

Lets look at the facts, 2 years ago no nation was willing to talk about or acknowledge Kashmir. Since then the US and other global powers have offered to directly intervene through mediation, which directly contradicts Indias position of Kashmir being an internal issue. Pakistan has also managed to convince friendly nations such as Turkey, Malaysia, and a few others to publicly speak about Kashmir at international summits. Finally the narrative of Kashmir is being built up through the ranks of lawmakers in Western countries, including key figures like Lindsay Graham who has the ear of Trump.

You see a gangu would look at that and say something idiotic like emailing and hiring protestors would attain that same level of success, but a rational person would see that as nothing but the result of hard fought diplomacy and willpower especially considering the terrrible circumstances Pakistan finds itself in.

I'm sorry my friend, this "gangu" respectfully disagrees with what you've said.

The measure of a successful diplomacy are actions, not words.

So far that the world and major powers are indeed discussing Kashmir, and if GoP's goal was to accord awareness to this issue, then it has been quite successful.

Words, however, are prelude to actions, it's well and good if another shares your concern, but what good is concern if no action to act upon it is taken.

There have been no sanctions, demarche, official condemnation from any significant power(able to influence GOI decision making) over the serious allegations levelled by GoP, your diplomacy, up til now has not yielded actionable success.

 

[randaam janmam]

I wholeheartedly support this - Pakistan should take this matter to the...what is it? International court and OIC and GCC and P5 and P8 and UNSC and ESC and ICJ and OPEC and RIMPAC and OECD and...apologies if I forgot to mention anybody.

I'm sure they will all listen very carefully.

Gangu definitions of internationalising might include free emails, and paying someone to hold a banner; but in the rest of the world the defintion is related to diplomacy and how states percieve issues.

I see. So I'm sure you will have great success in that, and Kashmir will soon be yours.

I'm sorry my friend, this "gangu" respectfully disagrees with what you've said.

"Gangu" or "Kaveriyu" or Periyariyu or ""Narmadiyu" or "Brahmaputriyu", there is one thing we realize and certain people don't - Kashmir is ours, and will remain ours. They can go cry to anybody they want, but Kashmir will remain ours.

 

[Flash_Ninja]

I'm sorry my friend, this "gangu" respectfully disagrees with what you've said.

The measure of a successful diplomacy are actions, not words.

So far that the world and major powers are indeed discussing Kashmir, and if GoP's goal was to accord awareness to this issue, then it has been quite successful.

Words, however, are prelude to actions, it's well and good if another shares your concern, but what good is concern if no action to act upon it is taken.

There have been no sanctions, demarche, official condemnation from any significant power(able to influence GOI decision making) over the serious allegations levelled by GoP, your diplomacy, up til now has not yielded actionable success.

First of all, internationalising an issue does not require any of those things.

Secondly diplomacy is defined as the following:

Diplomacy, the established method of influencing the decisions and behaviour of foreign governments and peoples through dialogue, negotiation, and other measures short of war or violence.

So to measures Pakistans success there are two very simple questions:

Did Pakistan utilise diplomatic channels in order to communicate the issue of Kashmir to the government of the world? YES

Has this diplomacy resulted in change or influence in other nations decisions or behaviour regarding Kashmir? YES

Dont try and spin it into anything else, it has been nothing but a success for Pakistan given the circumstances.

I see. So I'm sure you will have great success in that, and Kashmir will soon be yours.

Of course but rest assured, "P.0.K" as you baboons love to call it will never be yours.

 

[randaam janmam]

First of all, internationalising an issue does not require any of those things.

Secondly diplomacy is defined as the following:

Diplomacy, the established method of influencing the decisions and behaviour of foreign governments and peoples through dialogue, negotiation, and other measures short of war or violence.

So to measures Pakistans success there are two very simple questions:

Did Pakistan utilise diplomatic channels in order to communicate the issue of Kashmir to the government of the world? YES

Has this diplomacy resulted in change or influence in other nations decisions or behaviour regarding Kashmir? YES

Dont try and spin it into anything else, it has been nothing but a success for Pakistan given the circumstances.



Of course but rest assured, "P.0.K" as you baboons love to call it will never be yours.

1) Congratulations for your brilliant diplomatic victories. Meanwhile Kashmir remains Indian.

2) We don't want P O K. We don't want the people who live there, and there are no major river systems originating from there. Keep it. We have never waged a war to try to take P 0 K. You have waged several wars (1965, 1999) to take our Kashmir, and failed. That should tell you who covets what.

As short as possible:

1) Keep your P o K - we don't want it.
2) Dream of taking our Kashmir from us - you will never get it.

 

[Flash_Ninja]

1) Congratulations for your brilliant diplomatic victories. Meanwhile Kashmir remains Indian.

2) We don't want P O K. We don't want the people who live there, and there are no major river systems originating from there. Keep it. We have never waged a war to try to take P 0 K. You have waged several wars (1965, 1999) to take our Kashmir, and failed. That should tell you who covets what.

As short as possible:

1) Keep your P o K - we don't want it.
2) Dream of taking our Kashmir from us - you will never get it.

Yes thats why its illegal to portray the de facto map of Kahsmir, thats why indians are increasingly desperate in trying to show their failed narrative, and why your PM and army chief are giving out threats of invading Azad Kashmir on a weekly basis.

 

[El Sidd]

Government of Kashmir should issue a call for jihad through Federal Shariah Court to annex Jammu and IoK.

Allama Khadim Rizvi can do the honors of mass recruitment.

The world don't listen to cricketers nor take them seriously.

 

[Thamizh Puli]

what's this gangu gangu thing? some urdu word or Pak slang for gangs or something? like when a Tamilian will make fun of a Telugu guy saying gang would be gangu and in return the Telugu guy will knock a Tamil guy 'sambarrrrrr'.

anyways, the point is international court is not for internal matters; and as long as India says it is its internal matter, nothing much anyone else can do. Neither Pakistan nor India have the appetite for a real confrontation so don't see anything changing.

 

[jericho]

what's this gangu gangu thing? some urdu word or Pak slang for gangs or something? like when a Tamilian will make fun of a Telugu guy saying gang would be gangu and in return the Telugu guy will knock a Tamil guy 'sambarrrrrr'.

anyways, the point is international court is not for internal matters; and as long as India says it is its internal matter, nothing much anyone else can do. Neither Pakistan nor India have the appetite for a real confrontation so don't see anything changing.

Based on your post I would assume you are either Tamil/Telegu origin? if so, why are you trying to get involved in discussion about Kashmir? Most Pakistanis don't have any interest in your region or your politics. Doesn't make sense for us to discuss something that have no link to your culture or history.

 

[Krptonite]

Did Pakistan utilise diplomatic channels in order to communicate the issue of Kashmir to the government of the world? YES

Has this diplomacy resulted in change or influence in other nations decisions or behaviour regarding Kashmir? YES

I've already acknowledged the GoP efforts to utilise diplomatic channels to communicate the issue of Kashmir to the international community. They've been quite successful in this endeavour, all the major powers now know what GoP's stance is and her determination to solve this issue.

Convincing other nations to act on your priorities will require either leverage or allies or a quid pro quo arrangement. The only leverage GoP holds is the threat of nuclear arms use and the ensuring destruction that will follow; a gun to the head does not an ally make.

As regards to change in other nations behaviour, I once again ask you humbly, to point towards executive actions intended to cajole/coerce GoI into undoing it's actions or at the very least punish it for it's deeds.

After all, if all you've gotten are words spoken, with no executive action to solve the issue, then of what benefit are such words ?