Pakistan can take Laddakh in few days: Samson

[MilSpec]

They were all patriotic soldiers who gave India a bloody nose , they wouldn't lie but since they are not here themselves an Indian is trying to misrepresent them and I'm not about to let you get away with that!

So not interested in manipulated quotes from an Indian or some douche bag newspaper.
There are many false quotes that Indians attribute to even Muhammad Ali Jinnah , its part of the Indian strategy to cover it's losses.

Get out of Kashmir while you can or get ready to be kicked out

Just a little bit of leg work would reveal who is maligning your patriotic soldiers by disregarding their own views. Few of them are on video if you want.
But then again, If the army believes it's own lies, why wouldn't other nincompoops.

As far as UT of Kashmir....

 

[Thamizh Puli]

Well, you should talk about 56er Modi. Chinese never entered your territory. Then Indians must have entered Chinese territory.
Why cry if Chinese booted you out from "their territory according to Modi" !!

what crying? read the thread title. It's Paks here that got excited and jumping up and down

 

[Thorough Pro]

before preaching to us, how about you respect your own non-respectable disgrace of a soldier

Just a little bit of leg work would reveal who is maligning your patriotic soldiers by disregarding their own views. Few of them are on video if you want.
But then again, If the army believes it's own lies, why wouldn't other nincompoops.

As far as UT of Kashmir....

 

[pakdefender]

Just a little bit of leg work would reveal who is maligning your patriotic soldiers by disregarding their own views. Few of them are on video if you want.
But then again, If the army believes it's own lies, why wouldn't other nincompoops.

As far as UT of Kashmir....

The only nincompoops are the indians who don't realize that after every minor/major conflict they have actually lost some territory on the western front , the recent indian loss of more than 60 square miles to China is another reminder of the above fact.

There is no such thing as "UT of Kashmir" , it's indian occupied Kashmir and that shall soon become part of Azad Kashmir

 

[VCheng]

Kashmir issue is on the table ONLY because it has got hot from time to time. Otherwise the world would rather see it go away without any sort of resolution and that means India gets what it wants and that obviously isn't an option from either the Kashmiri or the Pakistani PoV.

Secondly, let's reassess. What International community are you expecting support from? Since the 1948 resolution, Pakistan has not and will not get any further tangible support specially from the west. With the focus on China now, even the lip service offered in the past will not be on offer as it is in the interest of the western powers to corner China and look at the Kashmir conflict from an Indian PoV. So what this means is that being parties to the conflict, Pakistan and China will have to do things that no longer depend on "support from international community" to safeguard their own territorial interests. Yes, the Pakistani campaign will continue to bring up the issue on International forums, but the tangible steps will have to be taken by Pakistan herself and may include military options that are overt/covert.

The recent developments clearly show that Pakistan's strategy of expecting world powers to do something about Kashmir won't help. Given the situation, and the recent developments between China-India, all options, including those like Kargil, are on the table. Kashmir issue can only be resolved by Pakistan-India-China fighting it out and/or coming to some arrangement perhaps. This hope for this "support from international community" is a joke and that too a bad one for the Kashmiris.

I respect your point of view above, but I will continue to suspect that any attempts to change the status quo by limited military action by any side is likely to be temporary. Might I suggest that this "arrangement" that you hope for that might result from fighting it out (or by other means) is already in place: the present stalemate.

 

[blain2]

I respect your point of view above, but I will continue to suspect that any attempts to change the status quo by limited military action by any side is likely to be temporary. Might I suggest that this "arrangement" that you hope for that might result from fighting it out (or by other means) is already in place: the present stalemate.

It depends. India's measures at Siachen were not temporary as an example.
To your second point, that also depends. See the issue of making the current stalemate status quo requires the input of the Kashmiris. Are they okay with the status quo which will allow India to make massive demographic changes in the IoK? This is not just an issue of the existing military positions on the ground. The Kashmiris will themselves become minorities in their own lands.
I am not for war or loss of lives. But the road ahead is quite rocky and more conflagrations seem to be on the horizon.

 

[VCheng]

It depends. India's measures at Siachen were not temporary as an example.
To your second point, that also depends. See the issue of making the current stalemate status quo requires the input of the Kashmiris. Are they okay with the status quo which will allow India to make massive demographic changes in the IoK? This is not just an issue of the existing military positions on the ground. The Kashmiris will themselves become minorities in their own lands.
I am not for war or loss of lives. But the road ahead is quite rocky and more conflagrations seem to be on the horizon.

You make an important point: the role of the Kashmiri people in making themselves heard over the suppression that they have been facing, and whether the much-advertised democratic practices of India as a whole are sufficient, or indeed even the correct venue. This is where the role on the international community becomes hugely important. It is only lately that Pakistan is playing the game of popular perceptions better than ever before, and to begin to make up for the disastrous aftermath of its Kargil adventure, but it has a long ways to go still along this upward path.

For Siachin, the Indian incursion is legally untested, but probably robust given the lack of demarcation beyond the last point, as discussed in that older thread in detail. I suspect that is why they stopped at the Saltoro Ridge as the natural watershed boundary. By contrast, for Kargil, India was able to prove its narrative over Pakistan's.

(Please note that I am NOT taking sides, for or against any particular incursion, in the statements above.)

It is heartening to know that you are not for war or loss of lives. Humanity must prevail, if the two major powers in South Asia are to dedicate more recourse to uplift their people. I agree with you that the road ahead will be rocky, but as long as saner voices prevail on both sides to avoid conflict and war, I remain hopeful that at some point in the future, the present lines of control are converted into recognized international borders between nuclear neighbors, to benefit themselves and the world. Indeed, if China and India can be encouraged to resolve their border issues along similar lines, it will be a huge step forward for IndoPak resolution too.