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Okinawa vote a blow to Japan-U.S. ties

@Nihonjin1051 - I really don't understand this at all. The locals want us gone, they have for a while - or at least a loud minority does as I can't accurate gauge the opinion of all Okinawans, but they block all the measures that would allow the US to move. In a roundabout way they are only prolonging our presence by not allowing us to leave. Either we move to Guam, another base in Japan or we stay were we are. I really don't understand the thinking here at all.
 
lol, sure :rofl:
insult to injury???
the insult was them kicking us out of subic bay, and now they need us more than we need them.

please take over their EEZ I have no problem with that :devil:

Don't you think it's their right to ask American leave? Kick out is just a too harsh word :disagree:
 
The Futenma Military Complex is...HUGE.

This will be a much needed and desired asset for the Japanese Self Defense Force, when we assume its control.

The Naval Complex:
OKINAWA2-web-master675[1].jpg



The Air Command Complex:
AJ201205090073M[1].jpg
 
@Nihonjin1051 - I really don't understand this at all. The locals want us gone, they have for a while - or at least a loud minority does as I can't accurate gauge the opinion of all Okinawans, but they block all the measures that would allow the US to move. In a roundabout way they are only prolonging our presence by not allowing us to leave. Either we move to Guam, another base in Japan or we stay were we are. I really don't understand the thinking here at all.

Its a mix hunkabunka , my friend. To understand Okinawa Politics is like understanding Korean politics. It is emotionally charged !
 
Don't you think it's their right to ask American leave? Kick out is just a too harsh word :disagree:

their right??? sure.........and what a blunder that was.
we should let them fend for themselves :sniper:
isn't the Philippines the ones trying to get a coalition to form in ASEAN to stop China aggressive posture in South China Sea????
they can't even handle terrorists on there southern Islands not sure how they can handle policing their EEZ :rofl:

them paying to build/upgrade Subic should be only fair :bunny:
 
@Nihonjin1051 - I really don't understand this at all. The locals want us gone, they have for a while - or at least a loud minority does as I can't accurate gauge the opinion of all Okinawans, but they block all the measures that would allow the US to move. In a roundabout way they are only prolonging our presence by not allowing us to leave. Either we move to Guam, another base in Japan or we stay were we are. I really don't understand the thinking here at all.

You know that the United States and Japan have an agreement that allows US military vessels to use Japanese Military Bases in Misawa, Yokosuka, Maizuru, Sasebo, Iwakuni, and Yokota. So, Okinawa is not the only limiting factor.

Perhaps we can realize something wherein US Military Forces in Okinawa can be distributed throughout Japan's own Military Bases. This would allow greater fusion of our Military Forces , anyways. And it solves the problem of base relocation.
 
The locals want us gone, they have for a while - or at least a loud minority does as I can't accurate gauge the opinion of all Okinawans, but they block all the measures that would allow the US to move.

For one, they are not minority.

For two, they ask the US military to leave Okinawa, not to simply relocate.

Okinawans would even agree to the proposal that US military be located in other parts of Japan.

Either we move to Guam, another base in Japan or we stay were we are. I really don't understand the thinking here at all.

I guess Guam is the best option for the US military. I do not think any local Japanese in any part of Japan would feel safer to have a US military base near by. But the majority of Japanese bureaucracy, media and the business are different animals. It is the corrupt service business in Okianawa that favors US militarymen in Okinawa. They run the catering business, including the women trade.

Its a mix hunkabunka , my friend. To understand Okinawa Politics is like understanding Korean politics. It is emotionally charged !

But I guess it is made complex intentionally. Sometimes I question the loyalty of certain Japanese media.
 
I guess Guam is the best option for the US military. I do not think any local Japanese in any part of Japan would feel safer to have a US military base near by. But the majority of Japanese bureaucracy, media and the business are different animals. It is the corrupt service business in Okianawa that favors US militarymen in Okinawa. They run the catering business, including the women trade.

I respect and value your opinion, a lot more so than many members on PDF as I feel you are one of the more qualitative members, but in this instance I cannot take it at face value. "I guess Guam is the best option for the US military", I'm aware of the prevailing feelings among Chinese nationals towards the US military in the region, they typically want the US pushed back as far as they can get it to go... generally this is a reference to Guam. I'm not saying you, as a person bearing a Chinese flag has an ulterior motive for suggesting Guam, perhaps you do believe it to be the best option (I don't), I just can't accept this view at face value. Sorry, but I've seen this suggestion too many times before. As for corruption, I am in no position to make judgement either way so I'll avoid commenting on it.

Perhaps you can help convince me that Guam is the best option for the US presence in Japan to be moved to. What makes it best for both nations?

You know that the United States and Japan have an agreement that allows US military vessels to use Japanese Military Bases in Misawa, Yokosuka, Maizuru, Sasebo, Iwakuni, and Yokota. So, Okinawa is not the only limiting factor.

Perhaps we can realize something wherein US Military Forces in Okinawa can be distributed throughout Japan's own Military Bases. This would allow greater fusion of our Military Forces , anyways. And it solves the problem of base relocation.

True, true, but the facilities in Okinawa are much more useful to the US military due to their familiarity and location nearest to the SCS, they are near perfect spot to allow the US military easy access and quick access to the SCS. Rebasing them is an option, one that has been talked about and one I support if a hold on Futenma can't be secured in the future, but Futenma remains the ideal option for the US military in the region.

And for all the Chinese members here, jumping for joy, STOP!!! The US military isn't going anywhere, and we certainly are not retreating back across the sea. We will remain in the SCS whether you want us there or not... because other regional nations do.
 
But I guess it is made complex intentionally. Sometimes I question the loyalty of certain Japanese media.

There are different interest groups here. I will not deny that I have very positive views of American servicemen as I've a history in working with them in the past. But given the legal constraints here, it requires one to have situational awareness and the realities on the ground. My only recommendation is this: In the event that Onaga goes ahead with the closure of the Futenma Military Complex and denies the new base relocation , and if Abe does not intervene, then the United States Forces in Japan will definitely have to leave the country.

Given, Japan's Military Branch, the JSDF has been intertwined with the United States Armed Forces since the end of the 2nd World War, and policies and procedures reflects this interconnectedness, it will require a reform in said policies and procedures. If the United States will leave Japan, then it should not be rapid or radical, but should be a gradual process and thus gives time for the Japanese Self Defense Force to address this organizational change in Defense Posture. It may be then be catalyst for Japan to remove all military bans on itself and to formally and officially rename the JSDF into the Imperial Japanese Armed Forces. Lastly, due to the loss of any US military (nuclear) umbrella, this will then be a catalyst for Japan to acquire her own Nuclear Defense Policy and in earnest.

Long has Japan been too dependent on the American Spear whilst we provided the Shield in this Strategic Alliance.
 
In the event that Onaga goes ahead with the closure of the Futenma Military Complex and denies the new base relocation , and if Abe does not intervene, then the United States Forces in Japan will definitely have to leave the country.

But I guess Abe or whoever replaces him in the future, will never let that happen even though they may want it to happen. I have very little confidence in Japanese political sovereignty when it comes to the US military presence. It is sad but seems like to be the reality.

Perhaps you can help convince me that Guam is the best option for the US presence in Japan to be moved to. What makes it best for both nations?

By nation, you mean, the government or the people? In Okinawa, these two are different, as Okinawa has historically been against Tokyo's playing them like a cheap card on table in its dealings with the US since the reversion of the island.

For US, Guam is the best option, because, in case it is forced out of Japan, then the next option is the best option.

Korea already has US militaryman. Taiwan is a no-go.
 
@Nihonjin1051 - Hasn't US Military presence in Japan outlived its purpose ? :unsure:

In other words stop being such a chicken and fight my Chinese Brothers fairly ! :p:

I believe that Japan can defend and hold its own keep. However, Japanese Foreign Policy and Japan's Armed Forces is so deeply intertwined with American Foreign Policy that it will not be as easy as "kicking" them out the next day per se. If Japan is to remove US Forces from the country, this will take time to realize strategically, tactically, and operationally. There will need to be a revision of National Defense Policy, There will need to be actual revision of National Military Command Objectives. All of these will be meted and addressed by our Bicameral Legislature, it has to be adopted by the Supreme Court , means to say that this must be seen as Constitutionally viable. Lastly, This must be approved by His Imperial Majesty The Emperor.

In regards to our Chinese friends; there is no ill feeling with them. And conflict between Japan and China is a radical forgone conclusion. China is our largest trading partner, greater even than our trade with the Untied States.
 

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