News Flash: JFT carries out a successful WS-13 Flight test.

[Quwa]

No actually, my problem was with this...

Next time some pakistani might tighten a coupling on he engine and pakistani members would say--we are manufacturing the ws 13---give me a break Mark

.
...which you seem to use as ammunition quite a bit, often too much to the point where its the main point of your post. All you had to say was, "I don't think Pakistan co-produces WS-13...and Mark, can you clarify what you mean by input?" But no, you assumed I said something and then without clarifying that one line, you shot it as some type of meager credit-snatching - which you attributed to Pakistanis.

 

[truepakistani17]

Dear Mark Sien
brother it is not about 1bn or 5!!

look, let us discuss it in a differenct manner.
suppose we have allocated 1Bn funds for PAF development program. what do you suggest will be wise, to invest in an engine program or investing in avionics program.

experties in radars and avionics will help in upgradation of old fleets to next level, radar experties can be benificial in UAV programs, Helicopter upgradations, Navy, Airforce upgradation, perhaps may also see application in future procurement provided PAF want to stick to indegenious avionics even on imported plane.

on other side, no doubt indegenious engines would also be a big plus but, what would you or anyone other as knowledgeable as you in this field will suggest? will upgarding engines of say, older Mirages be more of an advancement then upgrading of avionices??

if we have fund we must spend these on things with mulitiple applications in use years to come. as far as i can think, development of avoinics, Radars, research in composite materials are of much more importance then going for engines.
even in engines, indegenious development of Tank engines, engines of APCs and other military vehicles will be far far more beneficial then investment in R&D of Air craft engine.

for me, it is very simple, it is, first things first

regards!

very right sir,
unless we have got enough done in much more important fields like the ones you and Mastan Sb have been pointing too it wont be wise to invest in such projects like engine manufacturing.
i will be a huge technological leap to get started with manufacturing of jet engines a home and wil bring a lot, also it is true that as sir Mark said, will make our fighter plane program indegenious in true sense but also this may lead to neglecting many mch more important fields of military like SAM, avionics, radars, missiles etc.

thank you

 

[muse]

also this may lead to neglecting many mch more important fields of military like SAM, avionics, radars, missiles etc.

What leads you to think this?

Perhaps a better way to look at this is to devise a public private partnership for the dual use industry in Pakistan -?

 

[Donatello]

Hi,

As you asked---$600 so far---hopefully I can do some more----would that be okay with you!

I can tell you that times are very tough here in the u s---but I will do what is in my meagre capabilities.

I also live in the US....times are not really that bad if you are willing to work through them.

 

[fanna4paf1]

what ws-13 have tvc option?

 

[Trac]

Good news everyone WS-13 is being Flight tested


China and Pakistan Push Chengdu JF-17 Fighter for Export

By: Chris Pocock
August 6, 2010
Military Aircraft, Defense

In the same week that the Chengdu JF-17 Thunder combat aircraft made its international debut at the Farnborough airshow, the product of this co-development between China and Pakistan was offered to Indonesia. The Pakistan Defence Minister signed a defense cooperation agreement with his Indonesian counterpart in Jakarta.

The list of countries that the Sino-Pakistan joint venture is targeting for sales is expanding fast: it reportedly also includes Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Congo, Egypt, Iran, Nigeria, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Turkey, Venezuela and Zimbabwe.

At Farnborough, joint-venture partners Catic and PAC described the JF-17 as a multi-role light fighter with an “outstanding performance-to-cost ratio.” The two aircraft on display were ferried to Farnborough but did not fly during the show, and officials were reluctant to allow journalists into the cockpit to view the three multifunction displays plus head-up display, HOTAS (hands on throttle and stick) and other avionics. The aircraft were shown with PL-5II IR-guided air-to-air missiles on wingtip rails and ferry tanks on the centerline and inner wing stations, leaving the outer wing stations unloaded. Mockups of five Chinese stores were displayed next to the aircraft: a C802A anti-ship missile; an SD-10A active radar-guided air-to-air missile; an LS-6 glide bomb; a WMD-7 targeting pod; and a KG300G electronic warfare pod.

Program officials said that a development JF-17 is now flying in China with a Chinese-developed engine, presumably the WS-13 Taishan. All other JF-17s are powered by the Russian-supplied RD-93 turbofan. On the eve of Farnborough, a Russian newspaper reported the opposition of Sukhoi and MiG director-general Mikhail Pogosian to a further sale of RD-93s to China because the JF-17 is competing with the MiG-29 for export sales. At the show, however, Russian officials, including Pogosian, played down this concern.


China and Pakistan Push Chengdu JF-17 Fighter for Export: AINonline

Bye bye RD-93 & Russkis


Regards:

Good news .. but still its just a first flight so need long to be developed fully may be 3-4 or more years

I think every one agreed with me that Chinese engines are still under developed and not as per standard just look at the example of ws10 more than 10 years of development and still not operational they are still importing Russian engine

Just one source for my claim and its Chinese
Chinese AVIC Top Head admits the Poor Quality of Jet Engine|China Military Power Mashup

 

[siegecrossbow]

Good news .. but still its just a first flight so need long to be developed fully may be 3-4 or more years

I think every one agreed with me that Chinese engines are still under developed and not as per standard just look at the example of ws10 more than 10 years of development and still not operational they are still importing Russian engine

Just one source for my claim and its Chinese
Chinese AVIC Top Head admits the Poor Quality of Jet Engine|China Military Power Mashup

Comeon man the news is from 09. No use to link it over and over again to make a point. For all we know they may have made breakthroughs in the WS-10 too (still not ready but solved a lot of problems).

 

[flyinghawkwings]

What's the difference between Manufacturing and Designing a Turbofan engine?

I think Manufacturing something like a single crystal blade is the same as needing to know how to make it in the first place.

Now, if you are talking about buying it from an outside supplier like China, and then putting all the pieces together, that is not really Manufacturing but assembling it via kits, and I don't think companies do that for Jet engines. For ships and jet planes, yes because it's possible to buy kits and put them together.

So if you want to Assemble a Jet engine from an outside source, you have two problems.

1. No company does that. They either sell you a Jet engine or not.

2. Even if they did, what is the difference between buying a Jet engine outright, and buying all the pieces and assembling it together? Not much. YOu could siimply study a RD93 engine by disassembling it and putting it together again.

What Pakistan needs to do is focus on Avionics. That is a potential area it can capitalize on and grow from. Jet engine building is the hardest thing in the world and it's simply beyond the capability of Pakistan right now, and for a long long time. You don't go from nothing to building a RD93 in 10 years.